Mance's Camp - A Farewell Project to Otty's Sanity

WhereRmyDragons

Cersei's Left Bob
Maester
I've faced a similar problem while planning the now long forgotten Renly's camp. If you're worrying the camp will end up visually looking too small and not vast enough, try to play with different terrain features and camp plotting to get something closer to what you want. Don't just try to make it as difficult and complex as possible because you think it'll be rewarding and beneficial to you for whatever reason. You'll have more than enough work with an appropriately scaled camp :p
 

otty

Builder
I will be completely transparent about this. I proofread this once. So sorry if I butchered the English language.
Either way, I also suggest you take a look at my plot and see the extra-tests ingame. I also have a large Terraforming test completed there as well. I have been having issues with Screenshots in-game so I'm sorry for the inconvenience.
I hopefully covered all things necessary. I tried my best getting everything in my head into an understandable format and document.


https://documentcloud.adobe.com/link/track?uri=urn:aaid:scds:US:9b412c21-bbd1-4fba-a324-345f03196955
 
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Iwan

Lean forward and grab!
Admin
Thanks for the update, otty. A few more or less loose thoughts on things.

##
Excellent research, great tests (I left one or two melons), I'm confident you can tackle this part of the project with ease. I just want to emphasise here that everything needs to be short term and makeshift than permanent. Cattle wouldn#t be held in fenced pastures but roam freely (and leave traces), etc etc. Similar traces need to be shown in formerly abandonded areas!

##
The Cave Dwellers will have to make do with tents, I fear, unless canon dictates that they lived in caves at that particular spot they were in at the end of book 1. It's highly unlikely they'd find a cave at every resting spot, so they'd be equipped just like the other people.

##
I'm still not sure if we both agree on the extent of the necessary terrain updates, however. The rivers all are still original WorldPainter ones and suck ass big time. They need to be redone entirely (but I'm not saying you need to redo all of them!) I know you've started digging into terraforming, but I have no idea how confident you are with it. It's tricky terrain, and a lot of work. We have to find a solution for this, ideally one that won't dump this on my feet, as I really got to get going on that thing on the other end of the continent...

That's the rivers.

##
As for the snow layers, we can avoid removing those and then having to awkwardly add them back in afterwards.
  1. select the area you want to build/plot on
  2. stack it up in the air
  3. remove all blocks but the snow layers from that copy (map the snow layers to placeholder blocks to avoid accidents)
  4. remove all snow layers from the original, leaving us with regular terrain
  5. plot and build. Mark roads and open spaces with a placeholder block
  6. copy that snow layer blanket back, mapping it only to air blocks (gmask 0)
  7. fix mistakes

##
I'm inclined to approve, but before I do, I'd like to ask you for yet another map. I'd like to see the different routes everyone took to get where they are now, as well as maybe a few impressions of how we could portray those signs of former travel.

Thanks!
 

otty

Builder
Thanks for the update, otty. A few more or less loose thoughts on things.

##
Excellent research, great tests (I left one or two melons), I'm confident you can tackle this part of the project with ease. I just want to emphasise here that everything needs to be short term and makeshift than permanent. Cattle wouldn#t be held in fenced pastures but roam freely (and leave traces), etc etc. Similar traces need to be shown in formerly abandonded areas!

##
The Cave Dwellers will have to make do with tents, I fear, unless canon dictates that they lived in caves at that particular spot they were in at the end of book 1. It's highly unlikely they'd find a cave at every resting spot, so they'd be equipped just like the other people.

##
I'm still not sure if we both agree on the extent of the necessary terrain updates, however. The rivers all are still original WorldPainter ones and suck ass big time. They need to be redone entirely (but I'm not saying you need to redo all of them!) I know you've started digging into terraforming, but I have no idea how confident you are with it. It's tricky terrain, and a lot of work. We have to find a solution for this, ideally one that won't dump this on my feet, as I really got to get going on that thing on the other end of the continent...

That's the rivers.

##
As for the snow layers, we can avoid removing those and then having to awkwardly add them back in afterward.
  1. select the area you want to build/plot on
  2. stack it up in the air
  3. remove all blocks but the snow layers from that copy (map the snow layers to placeholder blocks to avoid accidents)
  4. remove all snow layers from the original, leaving us with regular terrain
  5. plot and build. Mark roads and open spaces with a placeholder block
  6. copy that snow layer blanket back, mapping it only to air blocks (gmask 0)
  7. fix mistakes

##
I'm inclined to approve, but before I do, I'd like to ask you for yet another map. I'd like to see the different routes everyone took to get where they are now, as well as maybe a few impressions of how we could portray those signs of former travel.

Thanks!
*

Ahh yes, pens were not the best word and really probably should been have "pasture." However, a few things such as hen cages, horse-ties or other signs of animals will be needed as well just to indicate to visitors the existence of such animals. Otherwise, I agree.

*
Fair enough, this was a story-over-logic scenario. Sad to see Birdman the caves go. Their tents instead will be primarily A-frames and the Lean-too. They ate purportedly ate bugs, and painted their faces green purple. Minor signs of dye will be in place. IE A woman crushing up herbs to paint on her son's face. And I would maybe like to see if we can, by creating a small rock-overhang for them to preside under? Just enough of an alcove for hose who were lucky to crowd under.

*
No, I agree, sorry if my phase one made it seem simplified. I just stated exactly what I had done during my WE test. All of which was cleared and redone. The snow is about as good as I could get it. But I got advice from Cash from Carci about a trick to handle the smoothing of snow. But no the river isn't just receiving a touch-up, but to the best of my ability have a redo, as where the water begins/ends.... is terrible.

*
Can do! I will also find a new home for those Cave Dwellers.

I'll be gone for some time in the Rocky Mountains — and will closely exam the rivers there — so a response/ update may be delayed.
 
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CashBanks

Maester
##
As for the snow layers, we can avoid removing those and then having to awkwardly add them back in afterwards.
  1. select the area you want to build/plot on
  2. stack it up in the air
  3. remove all blocks but the snow layers from that copy (map the snow layers to placeholder blocks to avoid accidents)
  4. remove all snow layers from the original, leaving us with regular terrain
  5. plot and build. Mark roads and open spaces with a placeholder block
  6. copy that snow layer blanket back, mapping it only to air blocks (gmask 0)
  7. fix mistakes
Just to also help with this point, when plotting over nice worldpainted smooth snow, as a general rule I would place all the wool plot blocks on top of the snow layers, and would wait until the last minute to replace the snow layers beneath them so you can preserve as much of the original snow layers as possible.

When plotting out things like paths with WE brushes you can use use a /mask [0]&>[78] to only paint on the surface above the snow too. Then when you're happy with the path you reverse the mask to be /mask [78]&<[35] to replace only the snow below the final wool plots.
 

otty

Builder
MancesMap.jpg
MancesMap3.jpgLastly, I have a weird proposal and it's probably one that'd be rejected but I would really like to try in on a small scale.
I do not want to plot tents. Not because I don't want to take the time to do so but, because I want builders to plot it themselves.
I want to open up small sections that would contain 20-30 tents and give an outline above informing them exactly what the area should contain. For example:

This section is the northernmost section of the Ice-River clans. Since this is the edge I want it to be a bit more spread out and would like to see large spaces between the tents. It is here that they keep most of the fish and seal skins to dry. So provide plenty of space for that to be presented and ensure that you are building this in-addition to every tent or so. I want mainly white tents about 75%, and 25% brown. Please make 20 yurts, and 10 A-frames. Please also build a communal tent at the southern edge and a large open space in front where the majority of fish and seal skin is drying. Mammoth also live up north to this space so please indicate their existence through sleds, prints and ... piles of feces (?)

This space would be outlined in the air like we do for most server builds.

It may not work out. People may not read it. It might be terrible but, I want to encourage individual thinking versus one builder naturally wanting to organize things. If I let builders plot it would allow for natural chaos while also potentially encouraging a plotting method I would have not otherwise done.

Or if you think it would be better, I could also divide each clan into 5-10 mini's to encourage this random/individual thinking but in a more conventional manner of wool plots.

Other notes:

-Light Blue Wool tests are new tests on my plot to check out.
-Cave Dwellers will be southwest of the Frozen Shore Men in terms of the Mances Camp plotting. I will add overhangs similar to my Contest2019 plot.
- There will be a pass made through the mountains for them to get from the first camp to the second camp. All that is highlight red on this map is the area that will be REDONE Including the surrounding mountains.
-Yes, we will include signs of the former campsites.

- How will we manage the previous existence of clans? We need to indicate their former homes' dwellings. I suggest including these clans to the project list as an abandoned space.
 
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