In Progress Sweetport Sound (Foster) by StanateeTheManatee

Howdy y'all!

After careful consideration and research, I have decided to apply to foster Sweetport Sound and the surrounding lands of Houses Sunglass and Rambton, as allowed by Exemption C of the No Redo Rule (Projects in the Orphanage). This has long been one of my favorite builds, and I know some others in the same boat. That's why it is important we try and keep the original feel of the build. However, the lands surrounding it have long been neglected. So here, six years, twenty days after the original application by Larshping and Martin_Crasborn, I hereby present my application. Please see the link attached below!

~Stanatee-the-Manatee


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Looks nice stan! with the town planning i feel like the only brothels shouldn’t be by the warehouses, which are in a rather secluded spot. also mods may want to see an overview of the town plotting. can’t wait to see how it turns out!
 
Looks nice stan! with the town planning i feel like the only brothels shouldn’t be by the warehouses, which are in a rather secluded spot. also mods may want to see an overview of the town plotting. can’t wait to see how it turns out!
Being a town and house focused so heavily on the Faith it would be reasonable that the Brothels would have been forced into the less respected parts of town.
 
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Being a town and house focused so heavily on the Faith it would be reasonable that the Brothels would have been forced into the less respected parts of town.
that’s a fair point, but people’s natural instinct is to push against the boundaries put on them. so perhaps if stan plans some sort of secret whorehouse in the town. or a business used as a disguise for a secret whorehouse of sorts
 
This is such a thoughtful and well-planned application. As you are largely going off of the existing plans I would agree with the idea of this being a foster project.
I especially like the re-ordering of the Rambton lands. I agree that it doesn't make sense for Tally Hill to be the seat of House Rambton, so separating the two into distinct builds is a good idea. Just remember that moving your borders westwards is moving into the Kingswood, so I would suggest being conservative in how far you go.

As for brothels, I think they were an expected part of everyday town life. While discretion was the rule, I don't think they'd move to a shady part of town by necessity. The brothels probably pay regular tithes to the septons anyway.
 
Hey stan

Interesting and well laid out application. Well done. I do have a couple of questions and remarks.

First of all, some more general remarks before I go deeper into the plans. I would like to see more tests. Certainly for rural houses and different classes within the town. How would an updated low-class house look? It will definitely need a lot of updating. What does 'less stone' exactly mean? An example of the Updated gradient examples for the walls and castle would be handy. Currently, the tests look very monotone. I would suggest developing a second gradient to alternate with the current one.

You mentioned some extensive terra plans. How do you plan to execute the terra needed? As far as I know, you have no major terra experience. Will you update the forests, beaches and other terra features? I would definitely want to see a test for the cliffs you want to add.

Plans
  • If you produce honey would you include flower fields? I don't think colorful flower fields would fit with the vibe of the project.
  • I would opt for the seashell option to produce lime. I don't think the small scale of the usage in the region would warrant a quarry.
  • If you plan to extend the walls I would make the thatch sections less dense and try to replot some bits that are pushed together.
  • I think the Rambton castle is definitely a nice and unique castle that has stood the test of time quite well. I personally think you should go for something similar to it, but on a scale that fits canon better. Just a quick heads up as well that Trim castle is the main keep of Mallery already.
  • You mention seven gates. Isn't this a bit excessive for a town this size? I don't think depicting their strong religious beliefs should undercut the town's defenses.
This app is a great start, but I would love to see more tests in-game to see how you will approach this update/foster. If you have any questions feel free to message me.
 
Hey Stan,

Great app! Nicely researched, and I think your inclination for preservation of historical builds makes you a good fit for finishing up this seminal project.

I agree with Endy's feedback; I'd like to see the tests fleshed out a bit more. Particularly, a "before/after" of the tests shown in "Original Tests" versus your updated versions would be helpful. Also, if you plan to do the terraforming yourself, I'd also like to see a couple small dioramas showing finished examples of the terraforming you plan to do (this will also help you get a better idea of the terraforming process you want to follow and perhaps even script parts of it, so I recommend writing the commands you use down as you do this).

I'd be happy to approve pending these points being addressed.
 
Below are some tests I've made the last few days. Hopefully this meets some of what y'all were looking for.

And to get back to Endy's points:
1. I didn't really think about the colorful flowers we usually put with apiaries, but they're not totally necessary. Perhaps some fruit trees or a few fields of herbs and flowers with muted colors might be enough. Apiaries don't necessarily need dedicated pollinating grounds, but we should probably have something.
2. That was my first idea, but I thought I'd pitch the quarry just in case.
3. Yeah, the current low-class housing is a bit messy and needs cleaning up and some replotting.
4. Mallery keeps getting brought up, as Emot recalled its wall designs too. I just said Trim since that is what I believe "Tally Hill" is somewhat inspired by right now. After another look, I've started to like the castle more, although the stables most defintely need to be completely changed. I think it could be kept to a great extent.
5. The town currently has 6.5 gates. I don't think this really undercuts the defenses anymore than the current ones do. Im just proposing to remove the one half-gate and make a new one between the castle and the new dock.

You are right though, I don't have too much world edit/voxel experience, but I've been trying to learn it a bit. If approved, I would need some help getting going and/or have an editor execute my vision.


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___________________Low-class houses in Sweetport currently___________________________________________Low-class house update test___________________________

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Rural House tests. Palette variations shown alongside. See the document for an overview of the distribution of these houses.

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_____________________________________________Current Palette________Revamped Palette Test_______New Palette Test_____________________________________________

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_____________________________Current Coastline___________________________________________________________Cliff Terra Test (handmade)________________________
 
Looks good Stan! A couple minor things:

- It looks like one of the rural houses uses a hipped roof (though maybe it's just the camera angle). If so, I wouldn't use those in this style.

- I'm a bit unsure about the "border" patterns on the castle facades; I didn't quite like it on the original version either. I get what it's going for, I just think it looks a bit odd and makes the sections of the castle feel too boxy.

You have my approval otherwise though, on the condition that if you're going to do the terra yourself (which I'd suggest - teach a man how to fish etc.) you first do it on a small segment so that I can look at it before you start terraforming larger sections.
 
Hey stan

The cliffs are a huge improvement upon the current terrain. Having an orchard would work nicely if the trees are small enough. The tests are nice, but pay attention that the D&W won’t be to similar on every house. Mallery has some great D&W patterns for farmers house, if you wanted inspiration.

My only issue that remains are the gradients. Both on the houses and the castle. It is very important that you keep the contrast between blocks as low as possible. Otherwise you risk having a very chaotic facade. I would advise you to have a look at recent crownland castles and try to emulate those gradients. I’ll try to be online tonight to help you, if you’d want that.

Once the gradients are fixed you have my approval.
 
Just to jump in with the flowers/nectar for an apiary, bees do love flowering crops and orchards.
If you wanted to have an interesting mixture of the bright flower and orchard idea, have some thin young pears/plums/peaches etc. you can do this with bark fences and white bush (pear, apricot) and pink rose bush (plums, peaches).
Pears grow pretty fast and non-Perry varieties seem to not get too big, so that sounds like it wouldn’t fit well
 
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Thanks Emot! I've also caught up a bit with you in game about the tests and such.

Thanks, tentatively, Endy! I'll try and catch you in game to discuss some plans and tests too.

To the points above:
  • Yeah they are, I'm really glad how this first attempt went. There are currently some cliffs on the South end of the sound that could just use some touchups. The beaches need a lot of work, but I like the biome-changing and put that in the above test.
  • I like the orchard idea. Plus to Aeks's comment- plums, apricots and (not-currently-blooming) pears could be neat.
  • Yeah, I didnt realize I used a very similar pattern til you pointed it out. Obviously I won't do that when it comes down to it.
  • I've done some more tests on the castle palette if you wanna check it out on the third level on my plot. (only the palette and no damage/wear yet, not the ints/layout)
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I'm gonna get confusing here, but let's assign letters to three blocks in a gradient. block A block B and block C. block A being light block B being mid-tone and block C being dark. block A should never touch block C in a gradient otherwise it makes a contrasting effect. same thing if there are more blocks, a block should only touch a block that is either one lighter or one darker than itself
 
That isn't fully accurate, at least in my opinion. Strictly following those guidelines leads to striations and target-patterns, which are unappealing.

To defend why I don't subscribe to such practice, I'll provide a quick demonstration.

Below is a sample of Gaunt Castle's gradient, which is 1. a crownlander castle with similar gradient that several people have said to look at for inspiration 2. it's Endy's own build, so assuredly this gradient is fine with him.

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Note how your "A" (River Cobble) and "C" (Light Grey Stone) touch each other; as do "B" (Cobblestone) and "D" (Stone).
Now, "A" and "D" should usually be kept at least 1 block apart, but again, this may come down to case-by-case.​
 
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I'd just clarify Jake's advice to have sets of blocks A, B, and C, where two blocks are in a set if they're of similar hue/darkness and are more or less interchangeable. In the Gaunt gradient, A = {River Cobble}, B = {Cobblestone, Light Grey Stone}, C = {Stone}, with A < B < C. Of course, within a set, you still want to make sure the texture variations are used in a way which portrays corrosion (or whatever look you're going for) rather than completely randomly.
 
Finally, winter 'break' is here, and finals are over for me. It's been a week since I've last posted on here, and I've done several more iterations of gradient testing in my spare time, trying to incorporate more darker patches and stone bricks. I've shown Emot and I think he generally liked where it's going. Again, if you want to see, go to the third level of glass on my plot. It's still a work-in-progress, but I think it's headed in the right direction and is a great improvement on the current palette.
 
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I’ll approve so you can work on this during winterbreak. I’m not entirely satisfied yet with the gradient, although improvements have already been made. I would advice you to keep the castle as one of the last things you do to finish the project. When making plotting changes to the low class sections in town, you will have to show me before you can start building. Same goes for any alterations to the castle. Good luck!