Project/update application: Norrey



As the resume that looks nicely formatted in the google doc is munted on the forums so here it is again
a veritable ton of probie houses
Knott lumber and ringfort mini-minis
not quite as many houses

So this is the co-op update/foster of Norrey by myself and Iron Giant. Due to some issues the Norrey Proper section is still being worked on and not entirely present in the document.
But I would like to get some feedback on what we have done as to start the ball moving.

There are tests for the castle and feasthall at /warp aeksio, as well as houses.
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All the plans look good so far though I'm curious about how the castle will look, I'd be all for any keeps that were closer to First Men ring forts rather than the square styles of the south.

I'd also encourage you to test out some ideas for alternative styles of houses to Wull, some good ideas have been discussed in this thread.


Style updated and in the document. Different style with turf houses to be used on flat lands where turf is more prevalent. Large blackhouse-like test in the works, still need to finalise that and change it to have more of a rounded character. One hamlet has been reserved as a mini. Brothy/isolated cabin idea for more immersion builds.

More tests will be put in the document
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The Castle is a refuge fort and force multiplier for those trying to attack the village rather than just a residence for the Norrey.

Document has been finished and waiting for approval.
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I've been working on tests for the central industries. Wool processing (shearing, washing, drying/beating, spinning or making into felt, looms) and ironworks (mining, bloomeries/smelting, smithing).
This article has cool info about wool and sheep in northern Europe. Mayhaps wool from Norrey assists in furnishing the sails of the Wulls?
Also has info on what types of sheep are likely present in the north and how large they are. Also rooing is an interesting practice that I would like to incorporate into some of the more distant holds if possible.
Good industry stuff to know. Also has different practices mentioned and some of these are particular to a variety of different climates.


Ok is the doc now complete? You mentioned that the Norrey section wasn't finished yet so wasnt sure if there was still more to come.
Howdy there. Sorry I've really busy with my internship this past week. Yeah the document is pretty much complete unless something is suggested or any else is needed.



At the risk of claiming a monopoly on Northern Clan applications, if no other mods have objections I'm prepared to approve your app for Norrey. It looks like you've put a lot of thought into the plans and tests and I know you're eager to get started.

Here are my thoughts on your current plans and then I'll repeat the advise I gave to Johan on his Knott app.

- Overall the territory map looks good. I think you've made the right call in cutting Hamlet 1 since it is indeed very far North (and I know Enah had some thoughts about making sure you didn't build too far north). You're not beholden to use the spot for ruins but it's certainly not a bad idea to add some, would make a great immersion build!

- I'm wondering about the placement of holdfast 2 since it's so remote from the other hamlets, I guess it makes sense that they'd want to use it to assert their control into the area. Would make sense to give it some distinguishing defensive features, I can see you've thought about giving it a low earthern walle/motte and bailly which would be a good start.

- The main broche keep test is neat, it's a little unorthodox to have the three broches joined by the walls in the triangle shape, I'm more used to seeing the circular design but I don't hate it. Have a think about integrating some of the smaller roundhouses into the inner walls as well like here:

General tips

I tried out a few different styles of snow vegetation but this one turned out the best I think. It's a layer of oak leaves beneath the top levels of snow layers. Can be tricky on steep slopes though as the leaves become can be come exposed on the sides so it works best on flat areas.

I also tried putting down layers of carrot/turnip crops and then using WE to replace the soil beneath them with muddy snow, but it's not the neatest option since you can't put any snow on top of the crops and they'll all self-destruct if touched once the soil beneath them is removed.

It's easy to go overboard with the gravel/dirt/mud mix for village paths. Eventually I realised the style that looks best was a narrow line of dirt/gravel with a layer of muddy snow between it and the regular snow to make a gradient.

The roads between villages/hamlets/holdfasts are a pain to make, since you have to clear all the existing trees in the way then smooth out all the snow layers running along side it. I used a script that made it a little easier, but I haven't discovered the perfect way to do it yet. You'll also need to make sure you add slabs every time the road goes up/down a hill. Best advise I could give would be to make the paths before you add any more forests.

It took me a long time to figure out the best way to add snow to mountains. It's tempting to just get the gunpowder brush and /b snow the entire side of the mountain, but that invariably just scatters snow layers around randomly and doesn't look good (the snow brush also has a habit of sneakily spreading the snow inside houses without you noticing).

If you're starting with the all snow hills like this:

get a Northern Terrain block brush (/br sphere 2029:3)
Then add a mask of snow and the angle of cliff you want to make, e.g. /mask [2029:3]&/[50d][90d] and start brushing over the snow.

The last thing is to remove all snow layers on top of the northern terrain. Use an air brush (/br sphere 0) with a mask of on top of northern terrain /mask [78]&>[2029:3]

Regular snow blocks are weirdly affected by dynamic shadows and by default create these weird gross shadows over snow layers. We recently realised that you can remove these shadows by swapping the vanilla snow blocks with their snow layer equivalent (block id 78:7).

For example:

Advanced snow smoothing
Using the above trick of swapping snow to snow layer 78:7, you can also smooth snow out with the //smooth command.

Best method I've found:
1. Select the area of snow you want to smooth.
2. put a snow layer block on top of any snow block that doesn't already have one (you need to double layer the snow basically):
//gmask >80
//replace 0 78:7
3. swap all other existing snow layers to 78:7 - //replace 78 78:7
4. add a snow layer gmask (so the smooth command only affects the snow) - //gmask 78
5. execute the //smooth command - //smooth 1 -s

- No matter the gmasks, //smooth will always affect blocks above and below the selection, even if the blocks aren't in the selection. Which means this command won't work in forests, as the trees will confuse worldedit and won't smooth the snow layers properly.
- you can change the power with //smooth [ insert number 1-infinity] e.g. //smooth 1 -s is the lowest, or you could push it up with //smooth 5 -s
- This isn't a perfect solution and will still require some manual adjustment.

I also made some schemsets for snowy terrain /schset WWDetailSnow and WWDetailSnow2

When placing tree schems on top of snow, you'll generally always find that the tree sits on top of the snow layer and looks like it's floating, I never figured out what combination of schbr settings and masks to make the schem actually replace the snow layer, but I made a script that automatically fixes it and adds snow/icicles to the tree.

The gunpowder /b snow brush is the fastest way to add semi smooth layers of snow, but you can also use it to lay pebbles down for streams etc if you use a pebble brush and mask to replace the snow layers.

Say you wanted to add some pebbles down for a river, you could cover the area with snow layers, then use a pebble brush with the ID pattern: /br sphere #id[2212] with a snow layer mask: /mask 78
(You can then reverse it to mix some snow layers into the pebbles like this)

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thanks Cash! Really eager to get started!
The triangular castle idea is actually not really based on inspiration from Scotland but instead bronze age structures in Sardinia that are also unmortared (Nuraghe/i). I went for Nuraghi as inspiration because some had arrow slits in them, something I hadn't seen on a broch or dun. Then exchanged the flat tops of the sardinian structures for the beehive/conical rooves of the dun and broch.
I also based the closeness of the village tests on Nuraghe Arrubiu as it had the close, winding streets with wall sharing. I couldn't find any other bronze or iron age town layouts in Scotland so I went for something else from the bronze age and made substitutions.
I'll begin work on plotting interior buildings for the castle.


I've been silly and done a lot of planning on paper.

Anyway, I've plotted the interior buildings of the castle and will be changing the level of the snow. However, I've dragged my feat on actually building these but they are relatively simple. I will have them done tonight. I might work on a more in-detail map of village[1] to rekindle some vigour