Approved House Bolling by Homiesucc
- Thread starter Homiesucc
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The Spring 2023 edition of The Rookery is now out! Take a look to see the latest builds, guides, progress and development updates on the upcoming 1.18.2 switch. You can read it here:
https://indd.adobe.com/view/f943da18-ed77-4d55-845d-fee9bfa14247
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Hi Homie, I would like to give you feedback, but your application currently feels quite fragmented and it seems like many of your ideas have evolved since you first applied. Could you possibly update your original application with all your most up to date plans and tests?
Homiesucc
Envoy
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Bolling update 1: Dorne edition
Before I address updates in planning of the project, I would first like to address misconceptions involving the Rainwood being burnt during the first Dornish war. In 8 AC the Dornish forces responded to Aegon destroying castles by setting "Half the Rainwood of Cape Wrath" on fire and sacking half a dozen towns and villages. While the fires would have certainly affected Bolling (the sacking I am less certain about), at least 290 years have passed between then and the current events of Westeros. I looked at a website I cant recall anymore that said a temperate rainforest would take around 80 years to regrow. The Rainwood would have long stopped showing any fire damage by then.
Keep: The original plan for the keep has been completely replaced with a new keep (test on my plot). House styles may change but the keep itself is pretty much done. Again any fb will be incorporated (as long as it doesnt contradict with the fb from 20 other people lol)
Style: So currently the style I'm going with is this , the reason being most people i've spoken to prefer this over the current bolling style and also does not feature any stylistic elements that might greatly conflict with surrounding lands.
Crops: greens such as onion, chard, cabbage, etc for gardens, wheat for larger farmlands.
I can't really remember what else I've changed other than these things, so i think this'll be an accurate update for now. any questions?
Before I address updates in planning of the project, I would first like to address misconceptions involving the Rainwood being burnt during the first Dornish war. In 8 AC the Dornish forces responded to Aegon destroying castles by setting "Half the Rainwood of Cape Wrath" on fire and sacking half a dozen towns and villages. While the fires would have certainly affected Bolling (the sacking I am less certain about), at least 290 years have passed between then and the current events of Westeros. I looked at a website I cant recall anymore that said a temperate rainforest would take around 80 years to regrow. The Rainwood would have long stopped showing any fire damage by then.
Keep: The original plan for the keep has been completely replaced with a new keep (test on my plot). House styles may change but the keep itself is pretty much done. Again any fb will be incorporated (as long as it doesnt contradict with the fb from 20 other people lol)
Style: So currently the style I'm going with is this , the reason being most people i've spoken to prefer this over the current bolling style and also does not feature any stylistic elements that might greatly conflict with surrounding lands.
Crops: greens such as onion, chard, cabbage, etc for gardens, wheat for larger farmlands.
I can't really remember what else I've changed other than these things, so i think this'll be an accurate update for now. any questions?
Hi Homie,
Thanks for being patient with the app! I've gotten some more time to look at this now that the block update stuff is out of the way. I've already went through some feedback with you in-game, but I'll try to develop on it more here.
The keep test
- I do like the idea of having a more rustic, predominantly wood keep rather than a large gothic castle; it seems to fit the vibe of a small Rainwood project more.
- The layout of the keep, however, needs some improvement. The current test is completely flat within the walls of the keep, which feels rather unnatural given the rugged terrain - almost like the top of the cliff was just sliced off to make room for the castle. Remember that the castle is made to fit the terrain, not the other way around. I feel that the idea also has a lot more potential than what I'm currently seeing. A two-tiered motte and bailey keep could look really cool here, if you use the terrain and levels to your advantage.
- There's a couple other stylistic elements that I'm concerned about. Some of the palette and structure choices feel a bit messy - some examples I discussed with you in game are the salt-and-peppery mix of wood types in the front palisade, as well as the wall blocks on the corners of the towers (it might look nice to use all wall blocks for the tower bases, provided you can figure out the interiors).
- The bridge to the keep is a bit bulky. I think the design of the bridge in the current version of the project works well, provided you can make the sides a bit less messy. You can also look at the bridge Simbaa made at the Boggs castle as inspiration.
The village test
- To be honest, I'm a bit confused by the current test (sorry if I'm missing context elsewhere in the app). I notice it's up on a dirt mound; is that how you intend for the final village to look now, or are you still planning to keep the short palisade around the village like we talked about earlier? If the former, I think it looks a bit odd. Overall, I feel like the village test needs a bit more development; it's hard to tell currently what you intend the final product to look like. The more aspects of the village (and project as a whole) you can develop up-front, the better.
- I also feel like the plotting in the test lacks the cohesion and sense of development that the current version has; it seems like several disjoint plots as opposed to an interconnected village. Part of this can probably be improved by just developing the test more, like I mention above. Also, one thing that helps me a lot while plotting is to start with a particular focal point in the village (e.g. a tavern, gate, or just a specific house) and then build off from there.
Misc
- I agree with what Dutch said above; it's a bit hard to get a sense of what your current plans are due to how your ideas have evolved. An updated version of the app with all up-to-date info would be very helpful.
Thanks for being patient with the app! I've gotten some more time to look at this now that the block update stuff is out of the way. I've already went through some feedback with you in-game, but I'll try to develop on it more here.
The keep test
- I do like the idea of having a more rustic, predominantly wood keep rather than a large gothic castle; it seems to fit the vibe of a small Rainwood project more.
- The layout of the keep, however, needs some improvement. The current test is completely flat within the walls of the keep, which feels rather unnatural given the rugged terrain - almost like the top of the cliff was just sliced off to make room for the castle. Remember that the castle is made to fit the terrain, not the other way around. I feel that the idea also has a lot more potential than what I'm currently seeing. A two-tiered motte and bailey keep could look really cool here, if you use the terrain and levels to your advantage.
- There's a couple other stylistic elements that I'm concerned about. Some of the palette and structure choices feel a bit messy - some examples I discussed with you in game are the salt-and-peppery mix of wood types in the front palisade, as well as the wall blocks on the corners of the towers (it might look nice to use all wall blocks for the tower bases, provided you can figure out the interiors).
- The bridge to the keep is a bit bulky. I think the design of the bridge in the current version of the project works well, provided you can make the sides a bit less messy. You can also look at the bridge Simbaa made at the Boggs castle as inspiration.
The village test
- To be honest, I'm a bit confused by the current test (sorry if I'm missing context elsewhere in the app). I notice it's up on a dirt mound; is that how you intend for the final village to look now, or are you still planning to keep the short palisade around the village like we talked about earlier? If the former, I think it looks a bit odd. Overall, I feel like the village test needs a bit more development; it's hard to tell currently what you intend the final product to look like. The more aspects of the village (and project as a whole) you can develop up-front, the better.
- I also feel like the plotting in the test lacks the cohesion and sense of development that the current version has; it seems like several disjoint plots as opposed to an interconnected village. Part of this can probably be improved by just developing the test more, like I mention above. Also, one thing that helps me a lot while plotting is to start with a particular focal point in the village (e.g. a tavern, gate, or just a specific house) and then build off from there.
Misc
- I agree with what Dutch said above; it's a bit hard to get a sense of what your current plans are due to how your ideas have evolved. An updated version of the app with all up-to-date info would be very helpful.
Homiesucc
Envoy
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IT IS DONE
it is finally done
ask me anything
it is also 6am and I am very drunk so if ive made any mistakes, understand or perish
it is finally done
ask me anything
it is also 6am and I am very drunk so if ive made any mistakes, understand or perish
Jeffjunior77
Bookbinder
Gealrüable
Royal Messenger
Looks good! Personally I'd love a little more slavic influence in the roofs too, but maybe it's good not to overdo it with Mistwood next to Bolling.
Nice work
Nice work
Homiesucc
Envoy
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the funny mod men said no.Looks good! Personally I'd love a little more slavic influence in the roofs too, but maybe it's good not to overdo it with Mistwood next to Bolling.
Nice work
Hi Homie,
Very nice work with the updated app, the project feels a lot better planned out now, and well-researched! Here's some feedback that I have after going through the app:
- What's the motivation for using the forest biome for the Rainwood? If it's just to get the grassy dirt texture in certain areas, I'd avoid doing that for a number of reasons - first, minecraft's biome mechanism is going to get drastically altered in the 1.16 migration, so doing this would risk getting messed up in the future. Second, it's likely that after the migration the grassy dirt (along with other biome-specific CTMs) will be re-added as new blocks to compensate for the biome issues, so the forest could be updated then with a WE replace. If you actually desire the forest biome color for leaves and grass in the Rainwood, then a biome change might be more justifiable. Either way though, this would warrant regional discussion, since it would be weird to have one section of the Rainwood be forest biome but the rest be jungle.
- Could you elaborate a bit more on your plans for the terra apart from the modified hills & gorge? Will everything apart from the village and farms be forested? Are you planning to do this forest yourself, or to request an Editor? I would personally recommend the former, since the current Editors seem to have their hands a bit full at the moment.
- The new village layout looks good, feels much more natural now that hill is grassed over and the foliage is added. My only feedback is that I'd reduce the size of the roads a bit and remove the pebble ruts along the edges, which in my opinion feel a bit too overdetailed. This would leave a bit more space that can be filled with yards. Also, instead of having the dirt roads spill out at the gates of the palisades, it would look better and be more realistic to have dirt ramps leading up to the gates (reinforced by wattle fence along the sides).
- There's a couple aesthetic things that I'm not sure about with the castle, although I like the concept. The stone keep feels a bit visually messy at the moment, which I think is a function of some of the ornate architectural elements (the buttresses and scaffolding at the top) combined with the diagonal layout and squat profile of the keep. Basically, it's a lot going on. It's possible that adding a gradient will help improve this, if you can use it to distinguish the buttresses from the keep walls somehow. Otherwise, I'd maybe experiment with dropping the diagonal and doing a grid-aligned keep instead.
- My other issue with the castle design is that the sept similarly feels rather busy (with all the fences and the more organic shape), which isn't inherently an issue, but feels a bit odd squeezed in between the two rows of simple wood cabins - it sort of interrupts my perception of scale in a way, as well as blocking the sightline from the gate to the stone keep. I feel like this could be improved if you move the sept to one of the two sides of the castle, replacing one of the rows of cabins. I do like the concept though. Is there any particular inspiration image that you and Nikas Kunitz were going for? If you could include that, it would be helpful for trying to figure out the best way to represent it in minecraft.
- The pond by hamlet 5 would need to be quite a bit bigger to support fishing as a means of subsistence. I think the current location there is supposed to be a hunting lodge for the lord; it probably makes sense to keep this as it is, or at least have the hamlet be hunters rather than fishers.
Other than these points I'm pretty happy with the app, and am ready to approve once you address them!
Very nice work with the updated app, the project feels a lot better planned out now, and well-researched! Here's some feedback that I have after going through the app:
- What's the motivation for using the forest biome for the Rainwood? If it's just to get the grassy dirt texture in certain areas, I'd avoid doing that for a number of reasons - first, minecraft's biome mechanism is going to get drastically altered in the 1.16 migration, so doing this would risk getting messed up in the future. Second, it's likely that after the migration the grassy dirt (along with other biome-specific CTMs) will be re-added as new blocks to compensate for the biome issues, so the forest could be updated then with a WE replace. If you actually desire the forest biome color for leaves and grass in the Rainwood, then a biome change might be more justifiable. Either way though, this would warrant regional discussion, since it would be weird to have one section of the Rainwood be forest biome but the rest be jungle.
- Could you elaborate a bit more on your plans for the terra apart from the modified hills & gorge? Will everything apart from the village and farms be forested? Are you planning to do this forest yourself, or to request an Editor? I would personally recommend the former, since the current Editors seem to have their hands a bit full at the moment.
- The new village layout looks good, feels much more natural now that hill is grassed over and the foliage is added. My only feedback is that I'd reduce the size of the roads a bit and remove the pebble ruts along the edges, which in my opinion feel a bit too overdetailed. This would leave a bit more space that can be filled with yards. Also, instead of having the dirt roads spill out at the gates of the palisades, it would look better and be more realistic to have dirt ramps leading up to the gates (reinforced by wattle fence along the sides).
- There's a couple aesthetic things that I'm not sure about with the castle, although I like the concept. The stone keep feels a bit visually messy at the moment, which I think is a function of some of the ornate architectural elements (the buttresses and scaffolding at the top) combined with the diagonal layout and squat profile of the keep. Basically, it's a lot going on. It's possible that adding a gradient will help improve this, if you can use it to distinguish the buttresses from the keep walls somehow. Otherwise, I'd maybe experiment with dropping the diagonal and doing a grid-aligned keep instead.
- My other issue with the castle design is that the sept similarly feels rather busy (with all the fences and the more organic shape), which isn't inherently an issue, but feels a bit odd squeezed in between the two rows of simple wood cabins - it sort of interrupts my perception of scale in a way, as well as blocking the sightline from the gate to the stone keep. I feel like this could be improved if you move the sept to one of the two sides of the castle, replacing one of the rows of cabins. I do like the concept though. Is there any particular inspiration image that you and Nikas Kunitz were going for? If you could include that, it would be helpful for trying to figure out the best way to represent it in minecraft.
- The pond by hamlet 5 would need to be quite a bit bigger to support fishing as a means of subsistence. I think the current location there is supposed to be a hunting lodge for the lord; it probably makes sense to keep this as it is, or at least have the hamlet be hunters rather than fishers.
Other than these points I'm pretty happy with the app, and am ready to approve once you address them!
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Homiesucc
Envoy
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The change for this was done for the richer grass texture and grassy dirt texture. To examplify this I cut out a slice of terra from near the keep to show what I mean, see picture one. Less to use either forest or jungle but to use both, forest for the ground and jungle for the rocks and water. The only texture difference between the two is oak leaves are slightly lighter in forest rather than jungle, however oak leaves are barely used in the current Bolling (I cannot say for certain about the rest of the Rainwood). I also do want to mention this technique IS ALREADY USED in current areas of Bolling, and I just want to do it on a larger scale. In terms of oak leaves this can be fixed by just using spruce, or any other type of tree really. (see pictures 3 and 4 for differences between the two, tree seen in picture 3 significantly outnumbering tree seen in picture 4 regardless).
I think its a really good idea but if you say no ill be fine with that.
not entirely sure how I can, but I can show you in person. Like I showed on the app I just want to move the hill back and make the gorge longer
yes, everything other than the buildings will be forested
entirely by myself yes, with advice from other people including editors
Done
Nikas hasn't been on for about 3 weeks so I wanted to talk to him about it myself, but I'll see what I can do
Oh good im glad somebody knows what that thing is lmao. Sure I'll keep it as a hunting lodge for the lord/nobility then
Homiesucc
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Just took another look at the tests; they look a lot better now, so I'm happy to approve! I'll have some more minor feedback on stuff but I'll give that once you actually get around to making it.
However, I'm adamant that you don't use forest biome to try to get particular textures in small, local areas, because of the migration issues that I mentioned earlier. Currently Bolling only seems to use it for a couple minor places, like a house roof and around a weirwood. Both of these are possible to get messed up in the migration, so I wouldn't do it at all.
I think AerioOndos had some feedback about the terra having to do with the grasslands/forest border, but I'll leave that to him.
However, I'm adamant that you don't use forest biome to try to get particular textures in small, local areas, because of the migration issues that I mentioned earlier. Currently Bolling only seems to use it for a couple minor places, like a house roof and around a weirwood. Both of these are possible to get messed up in the migration, so I wouldn't do it at all.
I think AerioOndos had some feedback about the terra having to do with the grasslands/forest border, but I'll leave that to him.
Homiesucc
Envoy
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Heya so my point on the terra is that with the Rainwood to 'broad plain' ratio on Cape Wrath, what would make sense is to give a corner of bolling over to a 'forested plain' area in between denser rainforest and the grasslands.
This would act as a transition between the coastal plain and grasslands that still need to be created at Herston and Horpe, as well as give you space to create the pear orchard and have larger fields.
Here's a basic map I tried to make of the larger Cape Wrath distribution. I've talked to you on the server about this and that the map here is just a rough guideline, what we were talking about is the more important thing.
That being noted, I give my approval. Go forth and help fill in that patch of green wool!
This would act as a transition between the coastal plain and grasslands that still need to be created at Herston and Horpe, as well as give you space to create the pear orchard and have larger fields.
Here's a basic map I tried to make of the larger Cape Wrath distribution. I've talked to you on the server about this and that the map here is just a rough guideline, what we were talking about is the more important thing.
That being noted, I give my approval. Go forth and help fill in that patch of green wool!
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Jeffjunior77
Bookbinder
Hey I Apply for the Holdfast in Bolling. I mae a plotting for some Houses infront of the hf. A Knight is living in this hf and Protect the Main Road Into Bolling. In my Opinion the houses in front of the hf fits very well. They are ppl under the Protection of the Knight and they work on his Land.
Jeffjunior77
Bookbinder
Jeffjunior77
Bookbinder