Westeroscraft Texture Pack Megathread

[Emoticone11]

Cool, thanks. Keep the terrainset suggestions coming!

 

[DutchGuard]

I've sent this to Tham privately previously but wanted to post here to open up the discussion about timber framing styles on the server (I'm aware these requests have probably already been made somewhere, but want to add my voice of support):

Currently, CTM for W&D connects horizontally. I don't know anything about how textures work, but could you connect them vertically?

The reason I have is because a lot of timber framed buildings common in the east and south east of England have close-studding, which means the infill panels extend vertically, following the timber framing. I have yet to see an example of where the panels run horizontally, as shown above (and yes I know that's not a finished building, but all the same).

Here is a drawing by Richard Harris from his book Discovering Timber Framed Buildings (It's really excellent, I'd recommend it).

Here's a few examples:
Paycocke's House, Coggeshall, Essex

Spon Street, Coventry

Church of St James and St Paul, Marton, Cheshire

The best for last (though I'm a little biased)
Cressing Temple, Braintree, Essex

Found another good close-studding example, just for fun. Saffron Walden is an amazing town for timber framing.

... and Thaxted Guildhall.... because I love it, and check out those girthy corner posts!
(Note that the timbers and infill panels are limewashed! Most English conservationists agree that this would have been the original finish on most timber framed buildings, and trust me, it's almost impossible to limewash "within the lines", it runs like water)

 

[DutchGuard]

Second mini request:
Seeing un-converted tree logs disappear from the common server palette is wonderful, but as a result there are no longer any timbers in timber framed buildings besides what one might assume is studding from the aforementioned W&D.

Any way we could retexture a log which looks like a converted timber beam of heartwood? It would be great to use for bridging beams in floors, or for hefty corner posts in large buildings.

Here's a few reference images for oak.

(You can see the carpenters marks on this one!)

These are some modern air dried oak beams, shakes are common but good oak is mostly clear, with few knot, as below.

 

[Emoticone11]

Hey Dutch, none of the pictures you attached seem to be showing up.

Regarding the vertical daub & wattle, I've tried a few times in the past to add vertical CTM in a way that will retroactively apply it to existing uses. However, I could never get it to look very good - it messed up the look of a lot of houses. If we're going through with the proposed KL upgrade (copying chunks into test, upgrading them, and copying them back over), though, it might be a good time to add vertical daub & wattle as a variant. KL is the only large city I can think of that uses d&w at the moment (WH, Lannisport, etc. thankfully don't) and other places can be more feasibly updated by a team of caring hands (and by that, I mean people who pushed for vertical d&w in the past, cough Kulmen). Something to think about.

Regarding timber, I'd have to see the pictures to know more specifically what you're asking for, but I suspect that a full timber block will just run into the same problem as full logs. It looks bad just because a full block for a beam or corner post is massive and looks really clunky. To get realistic timber for corner posts or rafters, you have to get carried away adding all sorts of corner-blocks and vertical slabs like Conquest has, but that's not something our server can afford to do at this point.

 

[DutchGuard]

Thanks for the clarification Emote, I think having a vertical D&W would be excellent, and as you say, the KL update might be the perfect proving ground.
Not sure why none of the photos are turning up, here's an imgur link with all of them.

As for converted timbers, I get your point. Fence and wall versions maybe? I know wooden fence walls are often used in larger interiors for tie beams, where a timber variant would be nice. Likewise smaller open trusses of all sorts, like what are used for watchtowers and the like, might benefit.

 

[Kulmen]

This is probably the biggest feature of real life architecture that we could never properly represent with our resource pack. Considering the amount of change it would bring, we should just rip the bandaid off now and get it over with.

 

[DutchGuard]

This is probably the biggest feature of real life architecture that we could never properly represent with our resource pack. Considering the amount of change it would bring, we should just rip the bandaid off now and get it over with.

I agree but as Emote suggested, it should be added as a variant. Horizontal D&W doesn't look bad necessarily, so a huge effort to replace horizontal D&W wouldn't be requisite. Both can be used together. Some square-panel frames feature horizontal panels, usually above and/or below windows. Imo it should be treated as an expansion of palette and not a change to the existing.

 

[Mayflumes]

Today I took some time off from building and checked out Emote and Tham's test packs, with the New terrainsets and overlays enabled.

A big change I wasn't aware of until I downloaded the terrainset pack was that the moss was removed from the Iron and Eastern Island terrainsets, I think this is a positive change, as not only do the new textures look great they also allow for blending with the Northern and Mountains of the Moon terrainsets.

Pyke: Current -- New
Red Keep: Current -- New
Spicetown: Current -- New


Terrainset Tests:
The Black Bar is the rock which lends the name to House Blackbar, it also is a good showcase of the building potential of the new Ores
Black Bar : Current --Test

Another Location in Bandallon, this is a quarry featuring mixing between the Reach, Mountains of the Moon, and Westerlands Terrainsets.
Enah's Quarry: Current Quarry -- Quarry With Overlay and New Terrainset

The imgur album below is a test of the new terrainsets and their interactions with the new ores. Overall I think all of the changes are an improvement, but there are some things I'm not quite happy with.

A Look at the New Additions: Imgur Album of all Tests

Moss textures: It doesn't seem that wieldy, a large block of moss, It would fit in some places and would be a welcome addition but a dappled moss would look better on cliff sides and such, much like what used in the Iron Island and Eastern Island terrainsets. Having a dappled moss as something to place, like horizontal and vertical paper, would be great to have.

Emote's idea would fit that need

I sort of had an idea though - what if we added a 6-way cuboid block (i.e. like duckweed but also able to be placed vertically like vines) with a transparent dappled moss CTM, so that it can be placed over terrainset blocks? This would be in addition to the thicker carpet moss block with overlay CTM that you're working on. Granted, it'll probably be used on bricks and other things as well, but that might be fine.

River Rock: I like the new color, and it blends well with the EI, II, MotM, and Northern terrainsets (despite the fact they don't have an overlay)
however I don't think it works well with the AD, RM and Stormlands terrainsets. I think adding a green (perhaps a lighter shade) colored set that matches the texture of the Arbor Dorne, Red Mountain and Stormlands terrainsets would fix things.

Stormlands: While I'm not 100% on board with chocolate stormlands most of the castles in the region match the chocolate. This means that for now we should keep the stormlands brown but keep new texture as an alternate terrainset for transitions.


These two images are the main gradients possible with new Terrainsets, but theres a lot more that could be created, especially with alternate terrainsets. If you want to be more involved with the direction of the Terrainsets (and by extension the future of the server :O) I suggest you download the test resource packs and test some things for yourself and post feedback on this thread.


(also on an unrelated note If we are adding vertical daub & wattle I would suggest we add all of Tham's timber frames they look excellent)

 

[AerioOndos]

I'm interested in the wooden beam idea if it were thin logs. It would work brilliantly in a number of places where vertical supporting beams are used, mainly the north, and also on some improved facades Otty has been working on for KL.
It would also work quite well as a block that axes are wedged into for wood chopping.

 

[Emoticone11]

I don't really see how such a timber block would work for exteriors, since in real houses timber is more or less flush with the daub & wattle, which we won't be able to do with wall blocks. Also, I always thought thin logs were fine as vertical supporting beams and rafters. It's the "bulkiness" of log blocks (and any full beam block) which bothered me.

 

[Thamus_Knoward]

oday I took some time off from building and checked out Emote and Tham's test packs, with the New terrainsets and overlays enabled.

Yay! Thanks @Mayflume and SseriousBusiness you are the heroes a Thamus needs!

As soon as the WC community finds a consensus just summon me and I’ll get right on it! Alt river block for the south has been acknowledged! Same with a slightly darker and warmer variation as an intermediate between reach and Dorne terrain sets.

 

[EStoop]

I think Dutchguard is referring to barkless logs as drafted here by Thamus:

http://puu.sh/Ft9il/01214fcf6e.png

Prototype of the stripped bark fence. You got any specific requests here otherwise I'll go ahead with recoloring them to match the planks (Although that's somewhat unrealistic.. I mean our spruce planks don't actually represent raw wood. They would have been pitched/varnished/painted otherwise they'd never be this dark.)

As for an update/expansion of the timber frame blocks, I think with the upcoming KL update as well as the prospect of a Gulltown redo it would be the perfect time to update the timber frame pack.

Thamus' pack introduces various elements of timber frame to allow for regional differences as well as differences between class, such as decorative elements like clovers and lozenges. It would also be great to have various colours of wood as well as infill to emphasize this, and to prevent large settlements such as Kingslanding to become large, uninspiring homogeneous swathes of daub, similar to full oak interiors.

I'm more than willing to provide historical context and to help out with determining which colours and shapes would be useful.

On a side note, could we change the naming of the blocks to Timber Frame rather than Daub and Wattle? Daub and wattle refers to the infill rather than the construction, and doesn't make sense in the context of "Brick daub and wattle".

Edit | I'm also more than willing to help out with other blocks if the need arises.

 

[Kulmen]

Since this is another trend that is taking off - Can we get a dedicated wooden window frame block, thats is stackable, so we don't have to use tables.

Thanks xoxoxoxoxo

 

[Emoticone11]

Stoop:
Since adding the vertical d&w (and our future plans re: KL and Gulltown) does create a bit of a slippery slope in terms of what other d&w blocks we might want to consider adding at this point, I discussed the issue with the rest of the mod team to see how far we want to go with it.

Our consensus was that we'll add some additional colors, namely a spruce timber, black/gray/white painted timber (consistent with the painted wood variants that were recently added), and some variants with either spruce/oak timber and some colored infill (including the variants that we've considered for Gulltown). Your insight on which of these variants would be most realistic/useful would be very much appreciated. Keep in mind that we won't be able to cross every timber color with every infill type/color, since the combinatorics would get really intractable.

We won't, however, be adding any additional timber shapes. We felt that this would quickly outdate just about every existing build using d&w (including currently up-to-standard towns like Duskendale, Fairmarket, Stoney Sept, etc.) in a way that the above wouldn't, since uses (or lack of use) of particular colors of d&w (or painted wood, stone palette, etc.) are a bit more justifiable as regional stylistic differences (such as Duskendale having a muted palette by design).

Kul:
Before I add a whole new block based on "another trend that is taking off", could you post some motivation for why a wooden window frame block (and its ersatz table substitutes) would be an improvement over the open windows that we've done for ages (or versions of it, like with the halfdoor sides)? I still don't understand exactly what the tables are supposed to represent, so some inspiration pictures would be helpful.

 

[DutchGuard]

If there was any possibility of adding just one new D&W timber shape I would advocate for this one. The block would allow for close studding, which is a common style in the Southern U.K. and IMO not so flashy as the others to instantly outdate what we currently have. I think it would look great for a sub-region in which there are many forests, as it would require more timber to construct. Close studding is kind of all or nothing, so it couldn’t really be mixed in with other D&W styles, and therefor be limited to a specific area without necessitating that it be retroactively added to older builds.

Considering that the Stormlands needs a general update anyway, that would be my nomination for its addition to the palette.

I’d be interested to know if EStoop feels the same way about any particular shape.

 

[DutchGuard]

Oh and forgot to add that it would look great if it had vertical CTM as well.

 

[Emoticone11]

That sounds reasonable, Dutch.

 

[Nuggets - Shygirlstan]

Today I took some time off from building and checked out Emote and Tham's test packs, with the New terrainsets and overlays enabled.

A big change I wasn't aware of until I downloaded the terrainset pack was that the moss was removed from the Iron and Eastern Island terrainsets, I think this is a positive change, as not only do the new textures look great they also allow for blending with the Northern and Mountains of the Moon terrainsets.

Pyke: Current -- New
Red Keep: Current -- New
Spicetown: Current -- New


Terrainset Tests:
The Black Bar is the rock which lends the name to House Blackbar, it also is a good showcase of the building potential of the new Ores
Black Bar : Current --Test

Another Location in Bandallon, this is a quarry featuring mixing between the Reach, Mountains of the Moon, and Westerlands Terrainsets.
Enah's Quarry: Current Quarry -- Quarry With Overlay and New Terrainset

The imgur album below is a test of the new terrainsets and their interactions with the new ores. Overall I think all of the changes are an improvement, but there are some things I'm not quite happy with.

A Look at the New Additions: Imgur Album of all Tests

Moss textures: It doesn't seem that wieldy, a large block of moss, It would fit in some places and would be a welcome addition but a dappled moss would look better on cliff sides and such, much like what used in the Iron Island and Eastern Island terrainsets. Having a dappled moss as something to place, like horizontal and vertical paper, would be great to have.

Emote's idea would fit that need



River Rock: I like the new color, and it blends well with the EI, II, MotM, and Northern terrainsets (despite the fact they don't have an overlay)
however I don't think it works well with the AD, RM and Stormlands terrainsets. I think adding a green (perhaps a lighter shade) colored set that matches the texture of the Arbor Dorne, Red Mountain and Stormlands terrainsets would fix things.

Stormlands: While I'm not 100% on board with chocolate stormlands most of the castles in the region match the chocolate. This means that for now we should keep the stormlands brown but keep new texture as an alternate terrainset for transitions.


These two images are the main gradients possible with new Terrainsets, but theres a lot more that could be created, especially with alternate terrainsets. If you want to be more involved with the direction of the Terrainsets (and by extension the future of the server :O) I suggest you download the test resource packs and test some things for yourself and post feedback on this thread.
View attachment 3459View attachment 3460

(also on an unrelated note If we are adding vertical daub & wattle I would suggest we add all of Tham's timber frames they look excellent)

This is verry interesting

 

[Adorkabley]

I would honestly update everything or anything with timber blocks if allowed to. Its not like im not on the server all day everyday.

 

[EStoop]

Since adding the vertical d&w (and our future plans re: KL and Gulltown) does create a bit of a slippery slope in terms of what other d&w blocks we might want to consider adding at this point, I discussed the issue with the rest of the mod team to see how far we want to go with it.

Our consensus was that we'll add some additional colors, namely a spruce timber, black/gray/white painted timber (consistent with the painted wood variants that were recently added), and some variants with either spruce/oak timber and some colored infill (including the variants that we've considered for Gulltown). Your insight on which of these variants would be most realistic/useful would be very much appreciated. Keep in mind that we won't be able to cross every timber color with every infill type/color, since the combinatorics would get really intractable.

I'd argue to make various sets of timber frame blocks, so the blocks can be combined in a single building. With this I mean a limited amount of timber frame colour, while most of the variation is in the infill. We already have a fairly large "oak" set, with white daub, brown daub, brick, Reach stone and Oldtown stone.
My suggestion for another set would be black wood, with white daub, yellow daub and brick.

In addition we could think about combinations for specific regions, like we did with the Reach and Oldtown timber frame. The Westerlands for example could benefit from oak combinations with Lannisport stone, orange daub and yellow daub, while the Vale might benefit more from black wood combinations with light grey stone, light blue daub, red daub and orange daub. Kingslanding might have some houses still painted in the old colours of house Targaryen; black timber with a faded red plaster, colours which would also combine well with the darker palette of the Stormlands.

We won't, however, be adding any additional timber shapes. We felt that this would quickly outdate just about every existing build using d&w (including currently up-to-standard towns like Duskendale, Fairmarket, Stoney Sept, etc.) in a way that the above wouldn't, since uses (or lack of use) of particular colors of d&w (or painted wood, stone palette, etc.) are a bit more justifiable as regional stylistic differences (such as Duskendale having a muted palette by design).

I'd like to make a case of introducing more timber frame variants. I don't think introducing new variants of timber frame would outdate existing builds. The projects you mentioned did a great job with timber frame patterns, which will not become any less good if different shapes are introduced. Projects are much more prone to be outdated (and are much harder to update if needed) with the introduction of a whole new range of nature blocks, updates to flower blocks or the introduction of river pebble.

If there was any possibility of adding just one new D&W timber shape I would advocate for this one. The block would allow for close studding, which is a common style in the Southern U.K. and IMO not so flashy as the others to instantly outdate what we currently have. I think it would look great for a sub-region in which there are many forests, as it would require more timber to construct. Close studding is kind of all or nothing, so it couldn’t really be mixed in with other D&W styles, and therefor be limited to a specific area without necessitating that it be retroactively added to older builds.

Considering that the Stormlands needs a general update anyway, that would be my nomination for its addition to the palette.

I’d be interested to know if EStoop feels the same way about any particular shape.

Close studding would be my pick as well, with an honorary mention to the herringbone variant.

I made a small album with timber frame inspiration.