Approved Stepstones Megaproject (Bloodstone, Birdstone, Grey Gallows) by Antony_Justman

[Antony]

Soo... the time has FINALY come!!​

A small intro​

So, before I proceed, I need to state that, I have decided, to call this project a megabuild, more due to its size and also, itself beeing comprised by three islands, if that is, one can say 1 island would equal a project, but since all other former island projects, that existed in the area (old Grey Gallows, Old Bloodstone), will be nuked to Kingdom Come, one can say, the lines are a tad blurred.
Also, there have been some very small changes in the plans, regarding Karnessos. These changes are pretty minute so I didnt see it necessary to change it on the app. Rather I'll add it here.
Finaly, I forgot to write a resumé, so that will be posted here as well.

And here we go!​

Spoiler: Resumé

• House Parren of the Westerlands, a coop with Willas_Tyrell (/warp Parren)
• Red Mountains Valley Immersion, a coop with Zsomiking (/warp rmvalley)
• Ruined Septry Immersion, near Stoney Sept
(/warp SSruinedseptry)
• Tarbeck Hall Septry, a coop with Zsomiking and Alexistragic
• Vyrvillage sept, a coop with Chewyman
• Various other houses, septs and septrys all across the server, and a couple holdfasts? I don't fuckin' remember.

Right, so here's the Canon Document

Spoiler: Introduction to the Main Doc

Now, before you continue, to the main document, you should know, that those first refugees and settlers of the Stepstones, are those, which according to my headcanon, will be reffered to as Islanders.
It is them, that once lived the coastal lands around what is now Myr and the Disputed lands, and where lead to exile from the expansion of Andals.
I attribute to them, all piratic and slavery related acts, in the history of the Stepstones up until and shortly before the Doom. They were the ones, to found the first towns and settlements on both mountains and coasts, as well become the first traders in the area.
After the Doom, their civilisation collapsed as the islanders of the coast, were unable to halt the rammifications of the Doom, and whatever order, might have existed before went down the toilet.

And, here ofcourse it the Main Body of the App

Spoiler: The small change of plans, regarding Karnessos

Karnessos, due to its position closer to Dorne as a harbour, and also since Birdstone is an island of secondary inportance, it will not include the large, main slave market of the islands. Rather, it will simply be, a small supply and repair port, with minimal goings on, regarding trade, mostly related with the murex snail dyes produced there, as well as the other minor dealings of the Islands pirates and chiefs.

Now follow, the selection of maps and tests:

This is the the first map, courtesy of Zso :

Stepstones_FINAL2_1_5K.png

drive.google.com

This is the second map, courtesy of Rexstop15 :

stepstones1.jpg

drive.google.com

And, this is the folder, including both pictures of the inspiration and the various tests:

Inspiration and Tests for Grey Gallows - Google Drive

drive.google.com

All tests, can be found at /warp Antony2, on the final two levels.



-Thanks for reading, Ant

PS
Can't believe this is finaly happening! None of you, has any idea of how long, I've been waiting to do this, how long I've been planning this!!

Ah, and also... Drink up me hearties, Yo Ho!

 

[Azulejo]

What a wonderful example of world building! It is lovely to see how you filled the missing areas with your own head canon to create a complex world that fits with the canon we know about the islands. I really really love how you are trying to portray different societies living on the same space. Getting back to the important stuff, I have some minor feedback to give you, mainly questions about certain topics I wanna clarify:

Regrading Konossos/Queen's Harbour
You mention it will have around 40-45 houses, and also that it will be significantly abandoned, having around 1 out of 5 buildings inhabited. Does the 40-45 number account for all the buildings of the city, abandoned or not, or just those actively working as houses and thus inhabited?

If the answer is the first, it would mean that about 8 to 9 buildings of the city would be on use, which would be a really really low amount. If the answer is the second then the town would have between 200 and 225 buildings (ruined and on use), which may be a bit too much given the size of the island, even if most are abandoned (they will still take up space). According to our wiki Stoney Sept, as a size comparison, has 289 individual houses.​

Overall I think you might want to rethink the ratio/number of abandoned/on-use-houses a little bit so the total is a number that makes sense for the importance and scale of the settlement and the island.

Regarding Karnessos
Seems like you changed your plans about it a little bit, as you point out on your post. I will still expose my thoughts about the old plans as I think they could reinforce your choice of changing the approach towards this town. As you said being close to Dorne and Birdstone being a secondary island it would make more sense if the slave market you initially envisioned on it was placed on Bloodstone, which seems to be the main island of the Stepstones.

Something that would support this change other that the points mentioned is the fact that you made Karnessos a mainly Rhoynar settlement, or at least one where Rhoynar are an important group. Taking into account the tumultuous history of the Rhoynar since their forced migration from Essos fleeing from the Freehold (as their choice if they stayed was either death or slavery) it doesn't seem very fitting them becoming heavily involved in slavery later on time.

It is not impossible, don't get me wrong. After all, you mention that the Rhoynar inhabiting the town have integrated into the islander (native) society, and cultural values and societies can change a lot in 700-1000 years. I would still be inclined to believe that they might not initially pactise it, at least not if they retain a significant amount of their believes.

Going back to the first point I bringed up, if the slave market (which I think is a good idea and you shouldn't just drop IMO) is moved from Karnessos (Birdstone) to Konossos (Bloodstone) the amount of inhabited builds on the second might raise up a little bit, which may help with having a properly sized settlement.


Regarding the lake at Bloodstone
You mention it being a produce of Rhoynar engineering, a system that collapsed after the decline of Konossos. In your maps the lake seems to be surrounded by islander settlements, do you plan/do you see fitting having some Rhoynar presence in the area in some way? Either a proper settlement or remains that ties to the fact that they were the ones behind the plateau's old irrigation system. Did said system crash due to them fleeing?​

 

[Antony]

So, to answer to your questions:

Regrading Konossos/Queen's Harbour
You mention it will have around 40-45 houses, and also that it will be significantly abandoned, having around 1 out of 5 buildings inhabited. Does the 40-45 number account for all the buildings of the city, abandoned or not, or just those actively working as houses and thus inhabited?

If the answer is the first, it would mean that about 8 to 9 buildings of the city would be on use, which would be a really really low amount. If the answer is the second then the town would have between 200 and 225 buildings (ruined and on use), which may be a bit too much given the size of the island, even if most are abandoned (they will still take up space). According to our wiki Stoney Sept, as a size comparison, has 289 individual houses.​

Overall I think you might want to rethink the ratio/number of abandoned/on-use-houses a little bit so the total is a number that makes sense for the importance and scale of the settlement and the island.

So, regarding this. The total number is to be up to 40-45, with temples, houses, stores and public buildings accounted for.
225... God no!

Seems like you changed your plans about it a little bit, as you point out on your post. I will still expose my thoughts about the old plans as I think they could reinforce your choice of changing the approach towards this town. As you said being close to Dorne and Birdstone being a secondary island it would make more sense if the slave market you initially envisioned on it was placed on Bloodstone, which seems to be the main island of the Stepstones.

Something that would support this change other that the points mentioned is the fact that you made Karnessos a mainly Rhoynar settlement, or at least one where Rhoynar are an important group. Taking into account the tumultuous history of the Rhoynar since their forced migration from Essos fleeing from the Freehold (as their choice if they stayed was either death or slavery) it doesn't seem very fitting them becoming heavily involved in slavery later on time.

It is not impossible, don't get me wrong. After all, you mention that the Rhoynar inhabiting the town have integrated into the islander (native) society, and cultural values and societies can change a lot in 700-1000 years. I would still be inclined to believe that they might not initially pactise it, at least not if they retain a significant amount of their believes.

The idea is essentialy, that what happened with Islander society, is the same thing with Dorne. The Rhoynar, effectively divided into 2 groups. The intergrated and non-intergrated.
Islander society is really similar to Rhoynar society in some respects, so it wouldn't have been difficult.
As for the cultural aspect, in Dorne we saw the Rhoynar abandoning their beliefs and language in favour of the traditions of their new land. How difficult would it be, for those in the islands to do the same?
Also, I do believe, that the Rhoynar themselves had the institution of slavery, tho to a much smaller extent compared to others. So how difficult it would really be for them to enter it at some point. Also, the idea was for the Rhoynar to be mainly focused on their trades (smithery, art, masonry), or actuall trade, not necessarily the slave trade.
Karnessos, as it is to be now, is essentialy as a small supply town, that happens to survive, due to its close distance to Dorne, or its protection from Hierapytna and the Free Cities, due mainly to its position close to Dorne and its production of murex snail dyes.

Going back to the first point I bringed up, if the slave market (which I think is a good idea and you shouldn't just drop IMO) is moved from Karnessos (Birdstone) to Konossos (Bloodstone) the amount of inhabited builds on the second might raise up a little bit, which may help with having a properly sized settlement.

Actually, no. Though I could raise the number of inhabited buildings to 14/16 maybe, but that would be more than enough. Konossos, is essentialy a large flea market and a meeting spots for pirates, smugglers, slavers and all other types of lowlife in the region. With humans beeing the most preffered and plethorous merchantise. Buyers and purveyors of such goods, would dock their ships, go ashore, to the market, set up a stool or take up a certain spot and trade their goods. In the couple of its tavern/brothels, pirate captains or bosuns would search for capable cuthroats and other types of lowlife to enter their crew while slave-prostitutes would do their "stuff" in the said establishment, there would also be various temples/shrines for a score of essosi religions with the largest one, beeing a small red temple, and so on. That would be all there is to it, essentialy.

Regarding the lake at Bloodstone
You mention it being a produce of Rhoynar engineering, a system that collapsed after the decline of Konossos. In your maps the lake seems to be surrounded by islander settlements, do you plan/do you see fitting having some Rhoynar presence in the area in some way? Either a proper settlement or remains that ties to the fact that they were the ones behind the plateau's old irrigation system. Did said system crash due to them fleeing?

Well, certainly, thats partially the idea. Though id consider it unlikely that the remaining intergrated Rhoynar, would simply form their own clan, rather than follow the other clansmen to the various villages, as at that point, theyd be part of a clan themselves, as craftsmen, traders and lower nobility.

Regarding, the lake itself, i didnt say the system crashed. Rather due to poor maintainance after the fall of Konossos, essentialy the dams burst.
The idea behind it, was the irrigation system the Venetians had made in the Lassithi plateau. The plateau was already the most fertile spot in Crete, but that work, essentialy boosted production quite a lot. The irrigation network is still there and partially used. But ofc it has been destroyed at parts, due to the locals either not having the knowledge or the interest to maintain it.

 

[Azulejo]

So, regarding this. The total number is to be up to 40-45, with temples, houses, stores and public buildings accounted for.
225... God no!​

Actually, no. Though I could raise the number of inhabited buildings to 14/16 maybe, but that would be more than enough. Konossos, is essentialy a large flea market and a meeting spots for pirates, smugglers, slavers and all other types of lowlife in the region. With humans beeing the most preffered and plethorous merchantise. Buyers and purveyors of such goods, would dock their ships, go ashore, to the market, set up a stool or take up a certain spot and trade their goods. In the couple of its tavern/brothels, pirate captains or bosuns would search for capable cuthroats and other types of lowlife to enter their crew while slave-prostitutes would do their "stuff" in the said establishment, there would also be various temples/shrines for a score of essosi religions with the largest one, beeing a small red temple, and so on. That would be all there is to it, essentialy.​

I see, knowing that it is more of a meeting spot than an active town, as it was at the time, explains then the low number of actively used buildings. Having said that I still think raising the number a bit might be worth, as you said maybe around 14 to 16. Despite been abandoned it seems to still perform some fuctions of importance from time to time, which would push a greater deal of people to stay on it. All this are minor things that would be much more easily adressed on site.
​

The idea is essentialy, that what happened with Islander society, is the same thing with Dorne. The Rhoynar, effectively divided into 2 groups. The intergrated and non-intergrated.
Islander society is really similar to Rhoynar society in some respects, so it wouldn't have been difficult.
As for the cultural aspect, in Dorne we saw the Rhoynar abandoning their beliefs and language in favour of the traditions of their new land. How difficult would it be, for those in the islands to do the same?​

Mmmmmm... interesting. I was under the impression that you based the islander society on historical societies that had more differences with the Rhoynar. How does the islander society work, briefly? Besides that, you do bring a good point, if Rhoynar integrated in Dorne and combined with the local population there's no reason to believe that they didn't do the same in the Stepstones, and no reason to believe that, just like in Dorne, there was a group that did not assimilate.
​

Also, I do believe, that the Rhoynar themselves had the institution of slavery, tho to a much smaller extent compared to others.​

Canon about this is fuzzy on my head right now, if there's any, but personally I'm inclined to believe they might not have participated on it, although there's no real reason to be more inclined towards this take than yours. It is true that they are an ancient civilization and that the Westerosi seem to be unique in their lack of slavery compared to how frequent it is elsewhere, so it is plausible. I do believe however that they probably did not have an economy dependant on slave work, like Valyria, if they had slaves. It seems like the Rhoynar are idealized to a point (in universe I mean) which could make us not envision them as a complex society with ups and downs. This goes outside of the app's reach so I will not rant too much about it lmao.
​

Well, certainly, thats partially the idea. Though id consider it unlikely that the remaining intergrated Rhoynar, would simply form their own clan, rather than follow the other clansmen to the various villages, as at that point, theyd be part of a clan themselves, as craftsmen, traders and lower nobility.

Regarding, the lake itself, i didnt say the system crashed. Rather due to poor maintainance after the fall of Konossos, essentialy the dams burst.
The idea behind it, was the irrigation system the Venetians had made in the Lassithi plateau. The plateau was already the most fertile spot in Crete, but that work, essentialy boosted production quite a lot. The irrigation network is still there and partially used. But ofc it has been destroyed at parts, due to the locals either not having the knowledge or the interest to maintain it.​

Yeah "crashed" was me just being lazy with words hahahaha, I understood you meant poorly maintained and deteriored. I checked the Lassithi plateau and I think I have a good idea of what you want to do with that area, so I'm happy with either approach. Regarding the Rhoynar presence/remanents, the comments about integration displayed before answer it without need to futher develop.


Well, having said everything I had to say I am more than happy to approve this project. May the Stepstones have lots of pirates!​

 

[Antony]

Well, having said everything I had to say I am more than happy to approve this project. May the Stepstones have lots of pirates!

First of all, thank you very much Azulejo for approving.

Mmmmmm... interesting. I was under the impression that you based the islander society on historical societies that had more differences with the Rhoynar. How does the islander society work, briefly?

Well, thats quite an interesting question, let me see.
Firstly, we should remember, that the societal structure, the Rhoynar happened upon, when they arrived, was really quite different from what exists there today, in possibly, what is the majority of the islands. Pre-Doom, the Islanders had created for themselves, a small booming civilisation in those islands. Founding small city-states and establishing a rule of law, under the benevolence of the Valyrian Archon in Tyrosh.
Currently, this "codex" is only upheld in Hierapytna, since it is possibly the only remaining of the old city-states.
The laws, would be quite similar with the laws of Gortyn, looking over matters of rule, divorce, property, rape, slave's rights, adoption and so on.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gortyn_code

After the Doom, their little civilisation collapsed, and the people, or really, whoever could, fled inland, back to the old islander tribe-villages, which up until that point would effectively act as a fief for the corresponding clan, or found new villages.
This can be seen better in places like Bloodstone. So, after the Doom, the various clans would oftenly clash with each other over recources, of blood feuds and so on, effectively "returning" back to their warrior roots, that is clan warfare. This older form of their society, which eventualy adapted to city life, was essentialy quite "Doric". Men would train together in warfare from childhood, while stark daily banquets would be held for all the warriors, ussualy paid for by one of the clan's nobles. In both societal periods, slaves would be more like the serfs of Westeros, rather than slavery in Volantis.

I remember now, there is an ancient poem that describes more or less the situation.
The Skolion of Hybrias, in which he portrays quite vividly the vanity of the Cretan warrior:
"It is my greatest wealth, sword and spear
And the beautiful shield, my body's cover.
With those, they plough my land, the slaves and they reap
with those they press the sweet wine, and call me master.

Those, who dare not have spear and sword, and the beautiful shield, as the body's cover,
All bow before me and call me master, great king proclaiming me"
Thats my translation, so excuse it pls.

 

[AerioOndos]

Hiya, I've loved watching these plans develop and unfold, and absolutely can't wait to have this far flung corner of the map brought to life. I approve!

Good luck!

 

[Antony]

Thanks AeksioOndos!!

Finaly, the time has come!!​

 

[Azulejo]

Cleaning my computer I found this and I thought it was needed that the public knows about it

 

[AerioOndos]

And then Gallowsgrey lore

 

[Antony]

 

[Azulejo]

You love them don't lie

 

[Antony]

You love them don't lie

Yes.