Approved Southeastern Vale Megabuild (Wickenden, Ruthermont, Redfort, Runestone/Gulltown Peninsula) by Emoticone11

[Emoticone11]

AKA another thing to keep me occupied for the next 10 years...

This megabuild consists of Wickenden (finished; just minor post-approval updates pending), Ruthermont, Redfort, Runestone, and Gulltown. The city of Gulltown itself will be a separate server build applied for at a later date. However, I aim to establish the terrain and high-level layout of the city in this megabuild.



I've also attached the two maps from the application as standalone images. Feel free to discuss any of my plans in detail, or let me know if I've missed something (quite possible). Thanks for reading!

 

[Gealrüable]

Love this!
For some inspiration on the chalets (and general all things swiss):

https://www.rolandzumbuehl.ch/fotos/haus-hauptkonstruktionen/

(many houses are 18th an 19th century, but there are some late medieval among them)
personally I'm quite fond of the schwyzer chalets
and some types from western austria: the walserhaus (high alpine) and the rheintalhaus (from the broad upper rhine valley)
medieval chalets usually had the logs showing (and beams sticking out on the corners), the panelling (often fish scales) was added in the 19th century

on the Königsburg: it was heavily "medievaled" by wilhelm II so a lot of it is victorian additions (like the extensive morningstar collection)

 

[AerioOndos]

An idea could be to have earthworks from an old Andal camp near seaspur or eastford. This could be where the Graftons set up their base first to attack Runestone from before deciding to oust their allies, the Shetts. It could be inspired by the remains of Norse winter camps in the UK and the earthworks left behind once all the wood decays.
Love all the tests and the terrain insp so far though I have a few points on the city layout I'd like to address later. Brilliant work with this Emot!

 

[Bovine]

Wow, Emote this looks fantastic! I'm already very excited to see this come to fruition. The only thing that comes to mind with the map is that the lands of house Royce appear to be very narrow and small considering the power of the Royces. I know the plan is to focus their wealth on ore production and fishing but even still a lord needs peasants to serve in his levy! Also, Yohn Royce means to sell his crops suggesting that he likely has decent crop production in his domain. Perhaps they can be given some more of the southeast part of the Gulltown peninsula? or maybe the mountain range can be pushed a little further south and give more run-off valleys to the north?
Although it could be that the map is so large and the lands look smaller than they will be! I'm sure you have likely considered this already and that space will be at a premium on the peninsula but I figured I should share this anyway.

Regardless this is one of the greatest applications I have seen on this server, It reminds me of some technical writings I've seen or a research essay, I wonder what field you are in to create such a fine piece lol! and the maps are so gorgeous and detailed!
Congratulations Emote looking forward to seeing more from this!

 

[Emoticone11]

Wow, Emote this looks fantastic! I'm already very excited to see this come to fruition. The only thing that comes to mind with the map is that the lands of house Royce appear to be very narrow and small considering the power of the Royces. I know the plan is to focus their wealth on ore production and fishing but even still a lord needs peasants to serve in his levy! Also, Yohn Royce means to sell his crops suggesting that he likely has decent crop production in his domain. Perhaps they can be given some more of the southeast part of the Gulltown peninsula? or maybe the mountain range can be pushed a little further south and give more run-off valleys to the north?
Although it could be that the map is so large and the lands look smaller than they will be! I'm sure you have likely considered this already and that space will be at a premium on the peninsula but I figured I should share this anyway.

Regardless this is one of the greatest applications I have seen on this server, It reminds me of some technical writings I've seen or a research essay, I wonder what field you are in to create such a fine piece lol! and the maps are so gorgeous and detailed!
Congratulations Emote looking forward to seeing more from this!

Thanks Bovine, I really appreciate it! I'm a CS grad student so I'm pretty used to writing stuff like this up in LaTeX

I definitely see your concern about the width of the Runestone lands and room for agriculture. From eyeballing the dynmap, I think it will be just enough space to have a land profile similar to The Tor/Ghost Hill, with narrow strips of farmland along the cliffs. The bulk of the farmland will be on the west side of the peninsula where it flattens out (towards #1 on the map). Also, the region along the cliffs will still be fairly populated, but just somewhat dense. Regarding the southeast part of the peninsula, my head-canon was that the Royces would have ceded that land after their defeat by the Andals (however, there are still some First Men cultural holdovers in that region, as indicated).

In general, the size and location of the hills is fairly flexible, so I'll make sure that there's adequate space for Gulltown and Runestone when I get around to terraforming those.

 

[FD001__]

Wow, Emote this looks fantastic! I'm already very excited to see this come to fruition. The only thing that comes to mind with the map is that the lands of house Royce appear to be very narrow and small considering the power of the Royces. I know the plan is to focus their wealth on ore production and fishing but even still a lord needs peasants to serve in his levy! Also, Yohn Royce means to sell his crops suggesting that he likely has decent crop production in his domain. Perhaps they can be given some more of the southeast part of the Gulltown peninsula? or maybe the mountain range can be pushed a little further south and give more run-off valleys to the north?
Although it could be that the map is so large and the lands look smaller than they will be! I'm sure you have likely considered this already and that space will be at a premium on the peninsula but I figured I should share this anyway.

Regardless this is one of the greatest applications I have seen on this server, It reminds me of some technical writings I've seen or a research essay, I wonder what field you are in to create such a fine piece lol! and the maps are so gorgeous and detailed!
Congratulations Emote looking forward to seeing more from this!

I agree. Laid out very well, better at graphic design than I am hahahah.

 

[AerioOndos]

For me, the harbour is the point of the app which I think could use a lot more flair. The bay feels like its been artificially enclosed with a breakwater, rather than being an impressive natural harbour thats been added too. I'm a fan of this Gulltown layout that Enah designed, particularly for the harbour. It feels a bit more individual and could have some really cool views, particularly with the bridge. Enah also created a mini model which fleshes out the design even more and is fantastic. I'm not saying one should be completely exchanged for the other, just thinking that the harbour could be improved.

https://imgur.com/JUGSnrV

So what I'm really looking for is some sort of combination of the unique feeling harbour with use of waterways and somehow fitting that in the terrain Emot is using as insp, which I adore. Would streams have created deep gullies within the 'shelves' or would it just not work all together?

On the point of ports, wouldn't it be good for Runestone to have ports plural? The Grafton quote implies quotes and while at least a second port could mean an ally's too (Waynwood? Longbow Hall?) I think it would be good to have at least another spot to birth thats big enough to be called a port.

 

[CashBanks]

 

[FD001__]

For me, the harbour is the point of the app which I think could use a lot more flair. The bay feels like its been artificially enclosed with a breakwater, rather than being an impressive natural harbour thats been added too. I'm a fan of this Gulltown layout that Enah designed, particularly for the harbour. It feels a bit more individual and could have some really cool views, particularly with the bridge. Enah also created a mini model which fleshes out the design even more and is fantastic. I'm not saying one should be completely exchanged for the other, just thinking that the harbour could be improved.

https://imgur.com/JUGSnrV

So what I'm really looking for is some sort of combination of the unique feeling harbour with use of waterways and somehow fitting that in the terrain Emot is using as insp, which I adore. Would streams have created deep gullies within the 'shelves' or would it just not work all together?

On the point of ports, wouldn't it be good for Runestone to have ports plural? The Grafton quote implies quotes and while at least a second port could mean an ally's too (Waynwood? Longbow Hall?) I think it would be good to have at least another spot to birth thats big enough to be called a port.

What could work, is that emote has planned these marine terraces and spurs that come off off the land and into the sea - perhaps one large spur comes off, and to the west? Maybe instead off the artificial angles of what Emote has planned?

Shielding the harbour in a more natural way, with a small stream flowing into the bay like what Enah planned.

 

[AerioOndos]

Or a stream on one of the marine terraces when the sea lowered became a blowhole that widened out into a bay?

 

[Bovine]

If you can find the space Emote, a horse breeder may be a cool inclusion in the project. So we can say it is somewhere where the knights of the Vale get their destriers.

 

[AerioOndos]

I'd say that horse studs would be all around the place but mostly in the vale proper. Otherwise garrons, mules and donkeys would be most worthwhile

 

[Emoticone11]

For me, the harbour is the point of the app which I think could use a lot more flair. The bay feels like its been artificially enclosed with a breakwater, rather than being an impressive natural harbour thats been added too. I'm a fan of this Gulltown layout that Enah designed, particularly for the harbour. It feels a bit more individual and could have some really cool views, particularly with the bridge. Enah also created a mini model which fleshes out the design even more and is fantastic. I'm not saying one should be completely exchanged for the other, just thinking that the harbour could be improved.

https://imgur.com/JUGSnrV

So what I'm really looking for is some sort of combination of the unique feeling harbour with use of waterways and somehow fitting that in the terrain Emot is using as insp, which I adore. Would streams have created deep gullies within the 'shelves' or would it just not work all together?

On the point of ports, wouldn't it be good for Runestone to have ports plural? The Grafton quote implies quotes and while at least a second port could mean an ally's too (Waynwood? Longbow Hall?) I think it would be good to have at least another spot to birth thats big enough to be called a port.

Hey Aeks, thanks for the feedback! I also love Enah's mini and am keen to use ideas from it where I can, especially once we get to the server build planning stage. Concerning the harbour shape, the main obstacle is that the topography is quite different in the interpretation I've gone with (which views the "formidable natural harbour" line as implying cliffy harbour terrain). This makes it difficult to have a large river outlet into the harbour like in Enah's map, since the slope of the land only allows for creeks running perpendicular to the coast.

However, it certainly is possible to have deep gullies formed by the two creeks that run through the city (I was already imagining this being the case more or less). What I can do is widen one of the two gullies to form a small cove like you were talking about, which will help add a bit of complexity to the harbour. I can also make the spur to the south of the city (#22) wider to the south, making it look a bit less like an artificial breakwater. I'll try to make a modified map showing this in the next few days.

I definitely want some cool bridges as well. Initially I was trying to think of how to have some long Lucerne-style covered bridges, since this was brought up as one of the inspirations for GT, but I decided that it wouldn't make as much sense here due to GT being a coastal city and having a higher risk of storm damage. However, having the gullies formed by the creeks going through the city should still open up some opportunities for some impressive bridges with good views of the city.

About Runestone's ports, I was imagining some smaller ports at each of the other villages/hamlets in order to justify that quote, but I didn't think it would make a whole lot of sense to have two large ports in close proximity on the Runestone side. That said, I could imagine having another large-ish port further west at hamlet #1.

 

[Emoticone11]

Here's an updated draft of the GT map in which I tried to make the harbour a bit more interesting and less artificial. I think the addition of the small cove could also allow for some nice waterside houses and a longer Lucerne-style covered bridge. The harbour area is a bit larger, but will generally be lower class and less densely plotted than the northern parts of the city.

Let me know if you have any further feedback or suggestions, otherwise I'll go ahead and update the official maps in the app.

 

[Emoticone11]

Bump! I've updated the original application and maps with the new harbour layout.

 

[DutchGuard]

I don't have any reservations at this stage, happy to approve.
Obviously when we get to applications for sub-project level I will scrutinize in greater detail, but the general and terra plans sound ace.
Let's do Vale!

 

[AerioOndos]

Approval from me too!

 

[Bovine]

Hey Emote, house Shett seems to have some conflicted canon. House Shett of Gulltown appears to be a vessel of House Grafton (if they are not in fact extinct), while House Shett of Gull Tower is a confirmed Vassel of Runestone. I see that you have Gull Tower in Gulltown. I suggest you rename that structure and have Gull Tower built inside Royce lands as a vessel. If you were to have both branches represented, it could be a cool narrative thing where the Gulltown Shetts are more embracing of Andal tradition, while Gull Tower Shetts Retain their Firstmen Culture, like their overlord. Maybe they were divided during the Andal invasion and Served different lords. This is of course assuming that the canon of the house is not a mistake.

 

[Emoticone11]

Good catch!

The little canon that exists on House Shett and their location is pretty confusing. I based the current position of the Gull Tower on the "semi-canon" quote given in the wiki. I just did a little more digging and it seems like this is extrapolated from a So Spake Martin entry:

Q: Also, looking at the new Vale houses, House Shett is listed as being lords of Gulltown, although we already have House Grafton as that. Some sort of shared control?

A: Sure, why not. Gulltown is either a very big town or a small city, plenty large enough for two Houses.

(Typical GRRM justification...)

From what I've pieced together, the story with the Shetts goes something like the following:

1. Prior to the Andal invasion, the Shetts rule Gulltown as the Kings of the True Men, and wage intermittent war with the Bronze Kings of House Royce.

2. Under Osgood III Shett, the Shetts lost land to the Royces under King Yorwyck VI Royce and were pushed within the town walls.

3. Following the Andal invasion, the Shetts ally with the Andals in order to reclaim their land; Osgood III converts to the Faith and marries off his daughter to Gerold Grafton to seal the pact.

4. The Shetts and Graftons are victorious against the Royces, but Osgood III is killed in battle.

5. The remaining Shetts are betrayed by the Graftons; Gerold takes control of the city and Osgood III's heir is dispossessed.

6. At some point in the future, when King Robar II Royce rallied the First Men houses to fight against the Andals, his sister convinced the remaining Shetts to ally with them and rebel against the Graftons.

7. The Shetts allowed Robar's men to storm the city, which they ostensibly held for a short time.

8. However, after the decisive Andal victory at the Battle of the Seven Stars, the Shetts and Royces (what was left of them) both bent the knee to Artys I Arryn. Control of Gulltown was given back to the Graftons.

If the Shetts splintered into two surviving branches at some point, this would presumably have happened between events 4 and 6, where (at least some of) the Shetts formed an allegiance with the Royces. But the books aren't really clear about whether these are two surviving branches, or if one of the two is extinct.

Even if we go with the two branches interpretation, I think it's difficult to extrapolate a location for the branches just based on their allegiences. A lot of these allegiences were formed as a result of alliances during the Andal invasion; this also explains, for instance, why House Coldwater are vassals of the Royces despite being located all the way in the Fingers. In my opinion, it makes most sense to keep the Gull Tower inside of Gulltown due to this being the original historical seat of House Shett (as well as the canon that they were at one point pushed within the town walls), while the splinter branch sworn to the Royces would only come much later in the story (and would still have considerable control within Gulltown, given that they were able to open the gates for Robar's men). It's possible that both of the branches are within (or near) the city, and one (Damon Shett?) has control of the Gull Tower and the other (Uther Shett?) is a landed knight with some estate within (or near) Gulltown.

 

[Margaery_Tyrell]

I also give approval