Approved Riverrun Redo Appeal

[Arkilstorm]

Hi guys!


This thread is just to announce a proposed Redo of Riverrun and it's surrounding lands, beginning with an appeal for consideration.

You can find the appeal document here!

Please note this doesn't constitute any plans or testing so far for this project, and is intended purely to open the discussion and consideration for Riverrun to be approved for a redo.

Many thanks!
Ark

 

[DutchGuard]

I would simply argue that due to the almost total lack of sprawl that Riverrun was never really completed in the first place, only the castle was, and it should therefore be considered an incomplete project exempting it from the no-redo rule entirely according to clause 1c.
In my opinion this same argument can be made for the Twins, Harrenhal, the Eyrie, and Storm's End, but those are discussions for another day.

I think that it is important to establish the lands directly surrounding the castle as belonging to the Tullys before further projects in the area are carried out.

I have a few questions with regards to borders, timeline issues, and the minor houses you want to include (which is a great idea), but those can wait for a full application.

 

[Arkilstorm]

I would simply argue that due to the almost total lack of sprawl that Riverrun was never really completed in the first place, only the castle was, and it should therefore be considered an incomplete project exempting it from the no-redo rule entirely according to clause 1c.
In my opinion this same argument can be made for the Twins, Harrenhal, the Eyrie, and Storm's End, but those are discussions for another day.

I think that it is important to establish the lands directly surrounding the castle as belonging to the Tullys before further projects in the area are carried out.

I have a few questions with regards to borders, timeline issues, and the minor houses you want to include (which is a great idea), but those can wait for a full application.

Thanks Dutch,

I agree with all of the above. This project and all those mentioned long predate my time on the server, and I suppose they belong to a different way of approaching projects which is very different to now. By the standards of the time they were completed, they ticked all the boxes, but now there are quite a few more boxes to tick.

Timeline / borders / locations are all subject to the application discussion as you said, but I know there is an ongoing timeline discussion that will have a large impact on how the region will appear, so will keep all of that in mind.

 

[SeapunkPeaches]

The appeal has been approved - Riverrun is now open for redo

 

[CashBanks]

 

[EStoop]

I don't want to saddle you with a whole lot more work but it might be worthwhile to include the entire region between Riverrun and the Golden Tooth into the project. That way the area receives a bit of desperatily needed love, as it currently is a huge mess of poorly located, often abandoned projects of which half are somehow known houses from the Westerlands.

 

[Arkilstorm]

CashBanks You're a savage! (For the sake of transparency, I love the current Riverrun and it will be saved and immortalised)

EStoop I agree that the actual areas that will form part of the redo will be extensive and subject to change. Some of the locations are possibly even in the wrong place, so it's going to need a lot of work to ferret out what should and shouldn't constitute the extent of lands which fall under direct Tully control. My initial map only really covers the areas currently assigned to very, very minor canon locations, which luckily happen to be very close to Riverrun. The highlighted areas really are the working minimum, that I'd like to fall within the remit of the Redo-appeal and announce that these areas will certainly be affected; should someone be considering applying for any of the projects within the outlined area, they will be impacted.

Any actual further plans will be subject to the approval and scrutiny

 

[EStoop]

Alright. I'm currently working on a map proposal for the Riverlands and would be happy to help out.

 

[Arkilstorm]

That'd be great! Thanks. I'm glad the conversation of the timeline and local planning has happened now; it's a great chance to establish some continuity and consistency in the region.

 

[ContraBlonde]

When Riverrun is redone will it be a server build or a regular project?

 

[DutchGuard]

As it stands, the minimum requirement for a build to be considered a server build is that they are a location which is both large and canon significant. This list is pretty predetermined as:

Castle Black, Nightfort, Winterfell, White Harbor, The Twins, The Eyrie, Gulltown, Pyke (Lordsport by extension), Riverrun, Harrenhal, Dragonstone, Duskendale, Lannisport, Casterly Rock, King's Landing, The Red Keep, Storm's End, Highgarden, Oldtown, The Arbor, Sunspear, and Mance's Camp, maybe.

But what you are probably asking CC, is will there be a server build day?
Server build days used to be very free-for-all. You can see the product of a server build day in pretty much all the old versions of server builds. They were fun and exciting, but at the expense of incredible stress for the project leader and overall build quality.

As a result we haven't really done a "server build day" in a while, for good reason. I think it's really up to the project leader and what they would like to achieve.

That said, I personally think server build days are a great way to get everyone involved for a big community effort, regardless of skill or experience. Guests enjoy spectating, and it's a great way to meet/work with new people. It's a welcoming and exciting atmosphere and they used to be my favourite thing about the server. I think we should try and have at least one server build day for each server build.

I think there must a be a way we can balance inclusivity and quality for this to still happen and not cause the project leader a headache. A few ideas:

- Limit the number of available plots
- Limit builders to one plot on the build day to discourage rushed builds.
- Each plot must be co-op.
- Assign plots in advance.
- Create teams with leaders to tackle specific areas.
- Scatter the available plots to build on so one section of the build doesn't become homogeneous.
- Create a rule whereby any build made on the build day can be wiped without no questions asked should it fall short of expectations.

I think the RK server build day was a great success because of how it was delegated (I wasn't there but from what I've heard it went rather well, and the proof is in the pudding). I'm sure that model can be emulated and improved upon.

Also, I don't think server build days should be limited to just server builds. Any project should be able to run a server build day provided the plans to do so are approved by the moderators. Things can go to shit pretty quickly so it's important that the plans are robust.

 

[ContraBlonde]

As it stands, the minimum requirement for a build to be considered a server build is that they are a location which is both large and canon significant. This list is pretty predetermined as:

Castle Black, Nightfort, Winterfell, White Harbor, The Twins, The Eyrie, Gulltown, Pyke (Lordsport by extention), Riverrun, Harrenhal, Dragonstone, Duskendale, Lannisport, Casterly Rock, King's Landing, The Red Keep, Storm's End, Highgarden, Oldtown, The Arbor, Sunspear, and Mance's Camp, maybe.

But what you are probably asking CC, is will there be a server build day?
Server build days used to be very free-for-all. You can see the product of a server build day in pretty much all the old versions of server builds. They were fun and exciting, but at the expense of incredible stress for the project leader and overall build quality.

As a result we haven't really done a "server build day" in a while, for good reason. I think it's really up to the project leader and what they would like to achieve.

That said, I personally think server build days are a great way to get everyone involved for a big community effort, regardless of skill or experience. Guests enjoy spectating, and it's a great way to meet/work with new people. It's a welcoming and exciting atmosphere and they used to be my favourite thing about the server. I think we should try and have at least one server build day for each server build.

I think there must a be a way we can balance inclusivity and quality for this to still happen and not cause the project leader a headache. A few ideas:

- Limit the number of available plots
- Limit builders to one plot on the build day to discourage rushed builds.
- Each plot must be co-op.
- Assign plots in advance.
- Create teams with leaders to tackle specific areas.
- Scatter the available plots to build on so one section of the build doesn't become homogenous.
- Create a rule whereby any build made on the build day can be wiped without no questions asked should it fall short of expectations.

I think the RK server build day was a great success because of how it was delegated (I wasn't there but from what I've heard it went rather well, and the proof is in the pudding). I'm sure that model can be emulated and improved upon.

Also, I don't think server build days should be limited to just server builds. Any project should be able to run a server build day provided the plans to do so are approved by the moderators. Things can go to shit pretty quickly so it's important that the plans are robust.

Thanks for the response Dutch,

To clarify, I was just asking if it’s classified as a server build or a solo project. I do not mean the old server build events like the eyrie that would happen 5 years ago.

 

[Arkilstorm]

Riverrun is a server build, due to the scale and canonical importance of the location. As is typical with server builds, major points of interest, structures, buildings etc will be open for application. With the planning in the very very very very (very very very) early stages, I'd advise people not to start jumping to testing for things, at least not until an application has been presented, it is at that point that the plans are adapted to meet feedback, scrutiny, and the testing phase should begin properly.


With Riverrun now likely to take direct ownership of much of the surrounding lands, these locations will likely effectively become mini applicable projects within the remit of the larger project. Loose regional planning will be established, but builders will be able to apply and lead their own small part of the server build.

Server build days as Dutch explained are dependent on the necessity to build something together at the same time without impacting on the quality. Depending on when in the timeline Riverrun ultimately is decided to be set, there may be scheduled server build days to build siege or military host tents... for example. This is yet to be decided and will indeed form part of the server build planning application.

 

[DutchGuard]

I do not mean the old server build events like the eyrie that would happen 5 years ago.

Why do you say that like it's such a long time ago

I'm chuffed you're considering having some server participation for RR Arkilstorm, I wouldn't ask for anything more. There are certainly builds that work and those that don't work with server events.

 

[Bovine]

is the goal a full redo like the models at /warp riverruntest?

 

[Arkilstorm]

is the goal a full redo like the models at /warp riverruntest?

With the approval of the appeal, it means that Riverrun has been approved to be redone entirely. This can be as extensive as necessary to accurately and sympathetically complete the project. The goal is to rebuild the castle in it's entirety and also the surrounding lands which are either abandoned, incomplete, or not yet started. The aim is to develop a regional style, spearheaded by Riverrun Castle.

There are a lot of existing tests at /warp RiverrunTest which have been made by many builders over the years preempting a redo at some point, myself included, and the area will be reorganised and tidied up ready for testing once a Server Build Application / Document has been posted and approved.

 

[SseriousBusiness]

Hey, I am really excited about this project and the server build aspect of it all!! The majority of the tests in riverruntest were made by me and wazgamer a long time ago, when we had the idea of doing the re-do. The tests are free to be used, as inspiration, or even completely discarded (they are pretty old by now lol), as well as the plethora of models that exist. Excited to see the application

 

[Vickon_Greyjoy]

hey Arkil i really want to help with the redo.
what needs to be done?

 

[Arkilstorm]

Hey guys, loving the enthusiasm, and we’re going to need a hell of a lot of it, but just a reminder, this thread is only pertinent to the redo appeal. It’ll be a little while before there is an application plan / document.

Plans will be published in a new thread in this sub forum in due course.