Project Application: House Long

IMajic

Emissary
hey ike the document isn't linked, and the link below didn't work for me, just a quick note the rules specify that you have todo a holdfast and hamlet mini projects before applying for a project, its great to see you so eager to start a new project tho. also to get a mini ask builders who are working on active projects :)

also not sure as this is such a tiny project probably being a holdfast and hamlet or 2 it would fulfil this anyway.

the mini project be a good way to test plotting and road laying so is great experience.
hope this is ok
thanks
maj
 
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Knights_of_Ikke

Bard
Guest
Hey Majic I know I talked to you in game but I might be better able to explain here. Before doing a project a new(non probationary) builder must create either 2 hamlets or a holdfast. I have searched around the forums a long time to find that. Anyway, so when I became a full builder I asked if any one had a hamlet or holdfast I could do and there were some suggestions so if this doesn't work out I will probally work on one of those. Anyway so I looked at diffrent Northern houses because the northern style is the best and found a range of noble houses that had no sigil, no words and barely appeard in the books if at all. In the Newbie guide on the forums, a small build or holdfast "include those that have no significance storywise - Generally these builds will not have any words, sigils, or references to them in the series. Most of these small builds were either created by project leads to wrest control of their surrounding lands or by Demodocus to fill empty space on our map." If this build is considered too big for a newbie let me know, I just wanted to explain myself a little
 

Emoticone11

The Dark Lord Sauron
Hey Ikke,

I just want to clarify that there is indeed a requirement to do 2 hamlets / a holdfast (typically holdfasts have some houses around them) before doing a full project app. The idea is that there's a bit of a jump between building houses and planning villages, and doing mini-projects helps give you a chance to try that and get feedback on it from the overall project lead before going full into a project.

Mini-projects usually don't take too long to do once you apply for one though, so you can keep this app up while you do that and then come back to it.
 
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Knights_of_Ikke

Bard
Guest
Alright, I finished a hamlet with a holdfast and I am just waiting for approval now. So I hope I can continue with this application.
 

Emoticone11

The Dark Lord Sauron
Hey Ikke,

Just a quick note looking at your tests, it seems like you're following some very outdated examples of Northern builds for your styles. Some examples of outdated things are the overuse of carved wood (remember, each panel of carved would would need to be actually carved by an artisan, it's not something to use in ordinary houses), random wood mixes, noisy gradients, those U-shaped spiky things over the windows, etc.

I highly recommend checking out some more recent northern builds such as Winterfell/Wintertown, Glenmore, etc. and redoing your tests to be closer to those.
 
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Knights_of_Ikke

Bard
Guest
So when I was fixing the houses I realized there is a lot about this application I did not like. So I made a new one with a lot of elements from the first one. I hope you like this one.


Project Application House Long

By: Knights_Of_Ikke

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Resume

Probation Builds


Cannon

House Long once held the wolfs den and Ser Lucifer Long, member of their Windblown, may be part of the house but they take whatever name they want.


First Build

This would be my first build but it isn’t very big, there isn’t even a semi-canon source for their sigil. It doesn’t exist.

Terraforming

Not much at all, just want some of the cliffs to be more dramatic.






Map


image
image


image







Justification for Location


My idea was that a very long time ago, House Long ruled the wolfs den and therefore had a large navy. The second son of one of the lords went to the eastern islands and took it over from the ironborn. When the original House Long went extinct, the second one survived on the eastern islands. Many centuries later, House Long has fallen into despair, having much less power then they used to. This is not canon but I like to create a bit of fake history to everything I build so I can give it more life.


Plan


Castle

  • Doubles as a lighthouse

  • There is a holdfast overlooking the cliffs and a small L shaped hall,

  • There is a long boat in the harbour

  • The idea behind the caste is that it has fallen into ruin so it is not in great shape at all

Hamlet 1

  • There are about 9 houses (may need more depinding on how much space is left over, an extra will be boat builder or fishing), 4 are fishermen, 1 is boat builder and repairs in general, 3 are farmers and 1 is a small tavern.

  • There is one barn

  • One well

  • One long boat out in the waters

  • There are some smaller boats in the harbour for fishing

  • There is a wooden wall around the hamlet to protect from ironborn raiders

  • There are 3 entrance ways, 1 from the lord's dock, 1 from the south and 1 from the north
  • The hamlet is almost completly stone except for about 2 houses which are newer and made of wood

Hamlet 2

  • Smaller than the first hamlet, only 3 houses, 2 fishing, 1 farmer

  • Small well and small fishing area with no dock

Hamlet 3

  • 4 houses, all fishing

  • There is a watchtower a bit out of town which is very small

  • There is a wall around the hamlet

  • There are no longboats anywhere to be seen, the reason is that their only boat got destroyed when it crashed
  • There is a crashed ship on one of the islands

Outside Hamlet

  • Different from my original application, there are barely any trees on the island, mostly it is just farms

  • The idea is that the island is reaching its limit for the population so many moves away.

  • There are a few houses outside of the hamlets but not many
  • There is only sheep or goat farmers outside the hamlet

Tests

  • For the house tests, I basically copied thecoddfish's ironborn house but made it more northern style and a lot smaller

  • Anyway check out /warp KnightsOfIkke and you can see house test, wall test for keep and keep test



Inspiration


  • Shetland in general
  • See viking turf houses below

  • Scalloway castle

  • pAMrAY2ALOZ33-13cUVmVwNdAx8tjlB_T59YZPXJjFQ5KyOjtRWYcci4korGmHuCpwFA57jpJiaPbZmjGPqmw3AFGsgbNwSVTUyK4EiMVkF88s5bUykxyMgFReWl5F6FKh1r3wzk
 
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Emoticone11

The Dark Lord Sauron
Hey Knights, finally got some time to look at the app. Here's some of the comments/feedback I have:

- Although this doesn't really impact your plans at all, I think a more plausible backstory is probably that this house Long is a minor branch of the family that were put in charge of the Wolf's Den - house cadet branches like this are fairly common in the books, such as the many minor stark branches we see all over the North.

- I don't think there would actually be wheat fields on a small island like this, since the environment makes it very difficult to grow. Rather, it would probably be exclusively goat farming & fishing.

- The islands should probably be made to look a little more oceanic and rugged (with some small sand beaches and cliffs), although not anything drastic. The islands already appear to be fairly hilly; have you accounted for this in your plans at all? For things like hamlet and castle placement? Although 2D layouts are important, you also want to consider the 3D spatial form of the island to be able to make things fit.

- I like the sod roof houses, they're very appropriate for the hardy environment. I would actually recommend making them even a little more primitive though, like these images:

LAM_turf_house.jpg


eiriksstadir.jpg


(Source)

And plenty more images like that if you look up "viking turf house". If you need some in-game inspiration, there's this nice test at /warp thecoddfish for an iron islands turf house. Because of the history of Long, it probably makes sense to have a similar style.

e90a4df5f3.png


- Instead of a tavern, you should probably have more of a "longhall", basically a longer building which is used communally by peasants for eating or other purposes. There are also some nice examples of these at /warp thecoddfish, although yours doesn't have to be the same style/material ofc.

- For the palisade, I would recommend a design closer to something like this one at /warp rmlogging (except a bit taller). The current one feels a bit too clunky with all the full logs and different wood types.

- The application says there are 4 hamlets, but I'm only seeing 3 in the maps?

- The castle/hall inspiration is good, but the execution still needs a bit more work (although you did fix the gradient). The turret shape is a bit strange, I'd perhaps ask around to get some suggestions from more experienced builders on that. I'm not sure if glass should be used for the windows, it doesn't seem to fit with the ruggedness of the island and settlement.

- I do like the layout of the palisade hamlet/keep. However, it's not really clear to me why the keep/lighthouse is completely seperate from the great hall.

- I think you should work on expanding your tests a little bit - it's a bit hard to judge the keep when it's kind of just an empty shell; it would help if you showed it built upon some terrain and with whatever landscape / houses / outbuildings surround it. You don't necessarily have to build the full keep, but can have footprints showing where the other things would be and what scale they'd be.

Similarly for the houses, I think it would be good to create a small to-scale diorama so we can see the bigger picture. Even at the plot I mentioned earlier for example, /warp thecoddfish, you can see how his house tests include all the small details which are directly around the house. This alone helps someone get a bigger picture of how the houses are actually going to be used in the world, what kind of feel the end result is going to have, etc. Hopefully this is making sense.

Best,
Emote
 

Knights_of_Ikke

Bard
Guest
Hello, so I got some help from Simbaa and changed the layout of the castle. Looked at Thecoddfish's house style and fixed the houses. I was looking at my application and I don't see where it says 4 hamets, there should only be 3. If the wooden style house is weird, then I can just delete it. Also, which one of the halls do you find better, the one in imgur or the one below it? Other than that, I hope you like my updated tests and as always they are at /warp KnightsOfIkke but you to go way up in the air.



Screen Shot 2018-12-19 at 2.27.33 PM.png



Also, I keep forgetting to put things in the imgur album so here is the long hall test.
545-be0134e7e33182982254e684de494106.jpg
546-585ededb3c95457dc4f0e5a02cc46ac1.jpg

Thank you
 

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Emoticone11

The Dark Lord Sauron
Hey Knight,

Enah and I were looking at the app & location a bit more, and we came to the decision that the islands are just so tiny and rugged, they probably wouldn't be able to support a village of people, nevermind an actual established house. It probably makes more sense to relocate Long to the coast that the islands are off of. You would still be able to keep most of the same lore, inspiration, etc.

It might be cool still to populate the islands with some First Men ruins or something similar.

I think the new house and hamlet plans are definitely an improvement, and you shouldn't need to change those much if you move to the coast. However, I'm still not entirely convinced by the tests: they still seem kind of haphazardly put together, with incomplete detailing, grass & dirt under stone blocks, etc. I'm also still a little confused about exactly how the castle is going to come together, how and why the hall and keep are separated, etc.

When putting together tests and dioramas, you should always try to see it as selling your ideas to the community: as such, you want to try to make it as shiny and appealing as possible, as well as clearly portraying your overall plans and ideas. Go above and beyond the bare minimum project requirements whenever you can.

Anyways, let me know what you think about the idea of moving the project from the islands to the coast!

Best,
Emote
 
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Knights_of_Ikke

Bard
Guest
Hey Emote

I am really sorry to do this but I think I should withdraw my application for a few reasons the main one being I felt I went into this too haphazardly. I did not plan enough and my tests were not very good at all. I feel I should plan much more before I apply for any project. Another reason is it did not feel like my project anymore but that is not necessarily a bad thing. I appreciated all the help I got from the community but it seemed like everyone else was making this test for me. The castle was done by Simbaa, the houses done by Thecoddfish and quite a bit more. I appreciated all the help and now have more of a knack for creating castles and houses but nothing was mine anymore in the slightest and I feel disconnected from everything. Finally, I know it sounds like a stupid reason but I really wanted to build on an island. I love islands for some reason and was devastated to learn that the iron islands were finished. I then scavenged around for months looking for some island similar to build on and I found those islands.

Now this being said, a lot of people did help me with this project and I don't want that to go to waste, I was planning to do some slight changes to the houses and quite a few changes to the castle and basically remake the project a Skagos house (I had planned to use Viking style sod houses for skagos even before I started doing this project [when I was in high school I was really interested in skagos] so there wouldn't be too much of a gap between the two tests) with a lot of changes.

So what should I do? Keep with house long but on the mainland. Use some of the tests on skagos. Or just continue doing minis until I have enough experience to apply for a test?

Again I am really sorry to do this.

Knight
 

Emoticone11

The Dark Lord Sauron
Hey Knight,

Don't worry about it! A lot of people have the same trouble around the time of the first solo project, since it's a pretty big jump to planning an entire style & area. You don't have to apologize at all for stepping back. Trust me, it's better to iron that stuff out now than to have a project you want to redo in a year, as is the case for many other builders :)

I totally understand what you mean about wanting to do an island. They are fun to do and it's nice to have an isolated area which you can just deck out and make your own. One of the first builds I applied for was also an island (The Paps), but I ended up abandoning the project because it ended up being more challenging than I thought (also I accidentally turned half of the island into flowers which immediately crashed everyone within a 10,000 block radius of it, which had a little something to do with me dropping it >_>). Bottom line, islands are cool, but I also wouldn't let it limit your interest.

Skagos unfortunately is marked as requiring a very experienced builder to apply for, because of how terraforming-intensive the project is and the fact that it's pretty notable in the canon. That said, nothing's stopping you from making Skagos tests and dioramas, which I would encourage you to do if you're interested.

Otherwise, I would keep testing for projects in a style you're interested in (whether Long or otherwise), but take some time to practice minis and dioramas until you can get a style which you feel like is your own. Keep getting feedback from other builders. During my time here, I've noticed that there's kind of a distinct style of presentation that builders tend to converage on (of course, keeping their own personal touches as well), and are usually fully there around the time of their 2nd or 3rd solo projects. It just takes practice and interaction.

Best,
Emote
 

_Simbaa

Printmaker
I just want to say that I just gave Knight the general shape of the castle (1 woolen side of the keep) with few arrowslits for him to work with and to see how he can detail it.