Completed Project Application: Durwell by an_escaped_duck
- Thread starter an_escaped_duck
- Start date
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The Spring 2023 edition of The Rookery is now out! Take a look to see the latest builds, guides, progress and development updates on the upcoming 1.18.2 switch. You can read it here:
https://indd.adobe.com/view/f943da18-ed77-4d55-845d-fee9bfa14247
an_escaped_duck
Envoy
Ah ok so for any mods watching, here's the hamlet application
and these are the updated yard plots
https://i.imgur.com/7qgUa86l.png
and these are the updated yard plots
https://i.imgur.com/7qgUa86l.png
After having a look at the updated tests in game, you guys have incorporated all my concerns, this looks good!
Approved.
Approved.
an_escaped_duck
Envoy
Hi mods,
Just wanted to let you know that all miniprojects are complete!
Check the ones pending approval out...
/warp durwellbrewery
/warp durwellfarmstead1
/warp durwellham1 (houses are pending approval but everything is completed)
/warp durwellvassal2
Just wanted to let you know that all miniprojects are complete!
Check the ones pending approval out...
/warp durwellbrewery
/warp durwellfarmstead1
/warp durwellham1 (houses are pending approval but everything is completed)
/warp durwellvassal2
an_escaped_duck
Envoy
Hello mods + builders,
Here is my plan for finishing the Durwell lands. Please note that this does not include the castle. I am probably 80% done right now, so feel free to give feedback on the stuff that looks finished. Also mods, please let me know if you think I should add anything to this final plan.
Thanks,
Duck
Here is my plan for finishing the Durwell lands. Please note that this does not include the castle. I am probably 80% done right now, so feel free to give feedback on the stuff that looks finished. Also mods, please let me know if you think I should add anything to this final plan.
Thanks,
Duck
Duck, how are you planning to do the exit stream of the lake north of your lands? where will it go? it might have been better to do it before all the fields, as you'll probably need to terra a way for the stream to join another stream/the ocean.
Other thing, as I told you once in game, do not add stuff for the sake of filling the lands. Make sure to think before of what is needed in your lands, what could be interesting, but also what would be too much for the lands. This is a general thought, not related specifically to anything.
Other thing, as I told you once in game, do not add stuff for the sake of filling the lands. Make sure to think before of what is needed in your lands, what could be interesting, but also what would be too much for the lands. This is a general thought, not related specifically to anything.
an_escaped_duck
Envoy
Hi Eld,
I was not planning an exit stream for the north lake because it sits in a natural bowl in the land. Its where runoff and rain from the nearby hills collects. The water wouldnt flow out of it since it has nowhere to go. And believe me, I don't really want to add more pastures but I was told that the sworn sword lands are heavily populated and that I need to fill them up. If the mods would allow, perhaps I can allocate the lands to the south/east to Conklyn and Dosk?
I was not planning an exit stream for the north lake because it sits in a natural bowl in the land. Its where runoff and rain from the nearby hills collects. The water wouldnt flow out of it since it has nowhere to go. And believe me, I don't really want to add more pastures but I was told that the sworn sword lands are heavily populated and that I need to fill them up. If the mods would allow, perhaps I can allocate the lands to the south/east to Conklyn and Dosk?
- Pronouns
- he/him
So I see you got confused after the hours of ingame chat you had with me yesterday. I assume it is not the best way of communication. I drew a quick paint map for you:
So I never wanted you to add pastures to the north in general, or to the south west.
I did want a few pastures directly next to the main village, as it was strangly barren north of it. But that should only extend to the trees north of the town, and maybe 100 blocks along the north eastern road.
Most importantly I want a nice transition towards the already finished sworn swords lands of Coldmoat. While I see that directly south is area left for the future project of Dosk, the red marked area should be all new and updated. If no pastures are wanted, with a nice forest. This means you have to replace the untouched trees in the marked area as well, not just connecting a new smaller forest north of them.
Please give us an updated map, also please mark all major routes through your lands and the exits, especially towards the yet undone projects, so future applicants dont have to search for ending roads.
So I never wanted you to add pastures to the north in general, or to the south west.
I did want a few pastures directly next to the main village, as it was strangly barren north of it. But that should only extend to the trees north of the town, and maybe 100 blocks along the north eastern road.
Most importantly I want a nice transition towards the already finished sworn swords lands of Coldmoat. While I see that directly south is area left for the future project of Dosk, the red marked area should be all new and updated. If no pastures are wanted, with a nice forest. This means you have to replace the untouched trees in the marked area as well, not just connecting a new smaller forest north of them.
Please give us an updated map, also please mark all major routes through your lands and the exits, especially towards the yet undone projects, so future applicants dont have to search for ending roads.
an_escaped_duck
Envoy
Hi guys,
southeast corner of the lands now has pastures, and a forest
nearest warp /warp durwellbrewery.
next I will add pastures to the northwest, after that all the major work should be done and i can add finishing details/check things.
southeast corner of the lands now has pastures, and a forest
nearest warp /warp durwellbrewery.
next I will add pastures to the northwest, after that all the major work should be done and i can add finishing details/check things.
EStoop
Knight of Fairmarket
Hello, I took a look around the project and noticed that the castle is of a certain type that is only common in lowland castles, primarily in combination with a moat. The castle at Durwell is standing on a hill. I tried finding your inspiration, but I could only find l'Ortenbourg, which looks like this.
an_escaped_duck
Envoy
Hi stoop,
Yeah that was a very very early inspiration the current castle is based off of chateau de saumur.
Yeah that was a very very early inspiration the current castle is based off of chateau de saumur.
an_escaped_duck
Envoy
Seeing as pretty much everything is finished, I welcome your feedbacks!
EStoop
Knight of Fairmarket
I'm not quite sure how to say this without being blunt, but this project is not finished.
Besides the various tags, tests and random blocks floating around in the air, the lands of the project are extremely empty, especially the northern parts. It looks to me that the fields, hamlets and everything else is just placed within the landscape which was already there, without considering that landscape or changing said landscape to give context to stuff you plotted and build. So in short, I think this project needs a lot more attention and detail than it has had.
Besides the various tags, tests and random blocks floating around in the air, the lands of the project are extremely empty, especially the northern parts. It looks to me that the fields, hamlets and everything else is just placed within the landscape which was already there, without considering that landscape or changing said landscape to give context to stuff you plotted and build. So in short, I think this project needs a lot more attention and detail than it has had.
an_escaped_duck
Envoy
Hi stoop,
The project is not ready for post approval, sorry if I was unclear. I meant that everything in my original plans has been completed and that I’d like some closer looks at it. The northern parts were only planned to have the hunting camp and logging hamlet, and I later added a knights tower. The lands of Durwell are primarily agricultural and are not really inhabited to the north. What did you have in mind as far as adding stuff? Where the physical lands are concerned, the hunting hamlet and holdfast both occupy high ground, to have a defensive advantage and an advantage for viewing animals. The hamlet was built around an existing road leading north to Crakehall, and the hunting camp has no roads leading to it because it is usually unoccupied and a hunting party would most likely hike there. However, I could easily add a small road if needed. Concerning the rest of the project, I redid the lands where the fields lie to be flatter. The main town is close to the ocean road, which makes sense from an economic standpoint. All the holdfasts occupy hills for defensive advantages. Hope this clears up some concerns, thanks for the feedback.
The project is not ready for post approval, sorry if I was unclear. I meant that everything in my original plans has been completed and that I’d like some closer looks at it. The northern parts were only planned to have the hunting camp and logging hamlet, and I later added a knights tower. The lands of Durwell are primarily agricultural and are not really inhabited to the north. What did you have in mind as far as adding stuff? Where the physical lands are concerned, the hunting hamlet and holdfast both occupy high ground, to have a defensive advantage and an advantage for viewing animals. The hamlet was built around an existing road leading north to Crakehall, and the hunting camp has no roads leading to it because it is usually unoccupied and a hunting party would most likely hike there. However, I could easily add a small road if needed. Concerning the rest of the project, I redid the lands where the fields lie to be flatter. The main town is close to the ocean road, which makes sense from an economic standpoint. All the holdfasts occupy hills for defensive advantages. Hope this clears up some concerns, thanks for the feedback.
Hi Duck,
Sorry I’ve not been very helpful with my feedback on this project lately, but it seems you’ve been in good hands with some of the other guys! I’ve had a look through the whole project and have a number of concerns. It’s a bit lengthy, but if there’s anything you want to talk about in game or need me to clarify, don’t hesitate to ask.
Durwell Castle:
The castle from your original plans was nice, but I feel now that it’s very stagnant and is missing a lot of character and detail. The layout is simple and effective, but you’ve taken none of the surrounding landscape into account, and the space within the courtyard is wasted. Other than a stable, there is no hay loft, nowhere for a farrier or stable-boys to live or ply their craft. A castle needs to be seen as a small town, and ensure that all services and amenities are catered for, in order to keep things moving.
Your castle has no food store, which is troubling, especially considering the huge number of guest and household bedrooms there are. I know you have storage outside the castle walls, but there isn't even a larder off your castle kitchen for everyday storage needs. Running up and down the hill to fetch food just seems a little strange. In the event of siege, your castle and it's occupants won't stand a chance.
The interior layout in places seems more like a hotel than a castle. If the castle is more of a home in unchallenged territory, where attack or siege are unlikely, then I can understand the interiors a little more, and the ostentatiousness of the castle itself makes a little more sense, however, your surrounding lands don’t suggest that. This is clearly a hard-working land, with a lot of farms and pastures, and the castle should reflect that a little better.
Aesthetically, aspects of the castle are quite pleasing, but there are a number of features that I feel let it down:
- The main keep building lacks detail overall, especially the roof and the north face of the building. I’d suggest adding some supports at the base of the castle, and perhaps some dormers for your attic space. Also try breaking up the stone hoppers around the top of the roof with some alternate blocks, they look to sterile.
- The tower roofs really need an overhang, or all those wooden hoardings around the top are going to be soaking wet and will rot away in no time. This will also help the towers not look like onion-domes from a distance.
- Your castle doesn’t have a single chimney.
- Every single room, except for the guards post above the gate, has exactly the same white plaster and wood panelling walls. Even the kitchens, corridors, store rooms etc. Carved wooden panelling would have been expensive to do, and should only be used in the main living areas. The guard’s quarters and kitchens certainly shouldnt be panelled. The plaster also really needs some detailing. There are a couple of great combinations for plaster that allow them to look a little worn, rather than appearing stark, brilliant white all the time. There are examples of this at Horn Hill and Woodwright Manor. Remember that your castle should have internal supporting walls made of stone, and that not every wall needs to be the same material.
- Your ceilings could possibly use a little bit of work. Some of the rooms have almost completely flat ceilings, and it's a shame you've not utilised the tall rooms, with some interesting rafters.
- Your hoarding on the inner courtyard looks a little strange (personally) with a slate roof, considering it doesn’t lead anywhere, like a proper gallery. If this is purely for use in case of siege or attack, a wooden roof would suffice.
Brewery:
I’m happy with the brewery as it stands, it’s a nice little compound. See my other feedback about the walls and surrounding landscape below. Try not to make the settlement too isolated.
Farmstead 1:
This is a nice farmstead but it’s unfinished in places I feel, you’re missing chimney pots, and any signs of work or life outside of the walls. You should have a plough or two working the fields nearby, and signs of harvest underway. As I’m going to mention a couple of times in this feedback, all of your settlements seem to be lifeless beyond the confines of their stone walls. You can build outside of them and integrate their ‘enclosures’ with the surrounding landscape. As it stands they seem very isolated and don’t show a lot of coherence with the project as a whole. The settlements should all be linked together in some way, or show that they are lived in. The lands between each settlement are as important as the settlements themselves.
I’d also suggest limiting some of the jungle wood on your roofs, as they appear a little splodgy. Darker areas of roofing should really be employed in parts where damp may gather, around joints, chimneys, gable ends, and other features. Random chunks of darker wood looks a little strange.
Hamlet 1:
The houses are fine, but I definitely think you could do with some more flora; flowers, bushes, bracken etc to make the wildlife seem a little more alive. Perhaps put a cart or two in the village, maybe some signs of village life?
Hamlet 3:
The houses are nice, and the gardens look lively enough, but I’m really put off by the straight gardens that end, only to be surrounded by empty plains. Are there plans to add more forest here, or farmland? As it stands, it’s really empty and could do with something to make the area more interesting. There are fully matured trees growing in the gardens of houses but not a single tree around the hamlet. What are your plans for the surrounding lands?
Hamlet 4:
Same as the other hamlets, the only difference I can see in them is that they have different layouts, but I wouldn’t really be able to tell which hamlet I’m in, as there’s no distinguishing features between each settlement, by way of either flora, or particular trades or specialism. Consider adding special builds, to each hamlet to differentiate it from the others, or perhaps something specific to that location within the region.
Vassal 1:
This is fine, but I definitely think you could do with some more flora; flowers, bushes, bracken etc to make the wildlife seem a little more alive.
Lands in general:
Trees are sparse throughout the land, but I have barely seen a single bush, or flowers, or a single piece of flora to really give any sense of detail. There’s cow parsley in the fields, but the rest of the land is barren and really needs perking up. With so much empty space I’d expect there to be roads lined with bracken and ferns, with flowers in the pastures, and even some mud and fallow in places. I
Your animal shelters in the pastures are all identical to one another, which looks a little uniform. Perhaps consider making them all a little different to one another, for a sense of organic realism.
---
This looks like a long wall of complaints, but please try and think of them as possible things to make what you’ve already done a little bit more polished and realistic. Sometimes the devil is in the detail!
Sorry I’ve not been very helpful with my feedback on this project lately, but it seems you’ve been in good hands with some of the other guys! I’ve had a look through the whole project and have a number of concerns. It’s a bit lengthy, but if there’s anything you want to talk about in game or need me to clarify, don’t hesitate to ask.
Durwell Castle:
The castle from your original plans was nice, but I feel now that it’s very stagnant and is missing a lot of character and detail. The layout is simple and effective, but you’ve taken none of the surrounding landscape into account, and the space within the courtyard is wasted. Other than a stable, there is no hay loft, nowhere for a farrier or stable-boys to live or ply their craft. A castle needs to be seen as a small town, and ensure that all services and amenities are catered for, in order to keep things moving.
Your castle has no food store, which is troubling, especially considering the huge number of guest and household bedrooms there are. I know you have storage outside the castle walls, but there isn't even a larder off your castle kitchen for everyday storage needs. Running up and down the hill to fetch food just seems a little strange. In the event of siege, your castle and it's occupants won't stand a chance.
The interior layout in places seems more like a hotel than a castle. If the castle is more of a home in unchallenged territory, where attack or siege are unlikely, then I can understand the interiors a little more, and the ostentatiousness of the castle itself makes a little more sense, however, your surrounding lands don’t suggest that. This is clearly a hard-working land, with a lot of farms and pastures, and the castle should reflect that a little better.
Aesthetically, aspects of the castle are quite pleasing, but there are a number of features that I feel let it down:
- The main keep building lacks detail overall, especially the roof and the north face of the building. I’d suggest adding some supports at the base of the castle, and perhaps some dormers for your attic space. Also try breaking up the stone hoppers around the top of the roof with some alternate blocks, they look to sterile.
- The tower roofs really need an overhang, or all those wooden hoardings around the top are going to be soaking wet and will rot away in no time. This will also help the towers not look like onion-domes from a distance.
- Your castle doesn’t have a single chimney.
- Every single room, except for the guards post above the gate, has exactly the same white plaster and wood panelling walls. Even the kitchens, corridors, store rooms etc. Carved wooden panelling would have been expensive to do, and should only be used in the main living areas. The guard’s quarters and kitchens certainly shouldnt be panelled. The plaster also really needs some detailing. There are a couple of great combinations for plaster that allow them to look a little worn, rather than appearing stark, brilliant white all the time. There are examples of this at Horn Hill and Woodwright Manor. Remember that your castle should have internal supporting walls made of stone, and that not every wall needs to be the same material.
- Your ceilings could possibly use a little bit of work. Some of the rooms have almost completely flat ceilings, and it's a shame you've not utilised the tall rooms, with some interesting rafters.
- Your hoarding on the inner courtyard looks a little strange (personally) with a slate roof, considering it doesn’t lead anywhere, like a proper gallery. If this is purely for use in case of siege or attack, a wooden roof would suffice.
Brewery:
I’m happy with the brewery as it stands, it’s a nice little compound. See my other feedback about the walls and surrounding landscape below. Try not to make the settlement too isolated.
Farmstead 1:
This is a nice farmstead but it’s unfinished in places I feel, you’re missing chimney pots, and any signs of work or life outside of the walls. You should have a plough or two working the fields nearby, and signs of harvest underway. As I’m going to mention a couple of times in this feedback, all of your settlements seem to be lifeless beyond the confines of their stone walls. You can build outside of them and integrate their ‘enclosures’ with the surrounding landscape. As it stands they seem very isolated and don’t show a lot of coherence with the project as a whole. The settlements should all be linked together in some way, or show that they are lived in. The lands between each settlement are as important as the settlements themselves.
I’d also suggest limiting some of the jungle wood on your roofs, as they appear a little splodgy. Darker areas of roofing should really be employed in parts where damp may gather, around joints, chimneys, gable ends, and other features. Random chunks of darker wood looks a little strange.
Hamlet 1:
The houses are fine, but I definitely think you could do with some more flora; flowers, bushes, bracken etc to make the wildlife seem a little more alive. Perhaps put a cart or two in the village, maybe some signs of village life?
Hamlet 3:
The houses are nice, and the gardens look lively enough, but I’m really put off by the straight gardens that end, only to be surrounded by empty plains. Are there plans to add more forest here, or farmland? As it stands, it’s really empty and could do with something to make the area more interesting. There are fully matured trees growing in the gardens of houses but not a single tree around the hamlet. What are your plans for the surrounding lands?
Hamlet 4:
Same as the other hamlets, the only difference I can see in them is that they have different layouts, but I wouldn’t really be able to tell which hamlet I’m in, as there’s no distinguishing features between each settlement, by way of either flora, or particular trades or specialism. Consider adding special builds, to each hamlet to differentiate it from the others, or perhaps something specific to that location within the region.
Vassal 1:
This is fine, but I definitely think you could do with some more flora; flowers, bushes, bracken etc to make the wildlife seem a little more alive.
Lands in general:
Trees are sparse throughout the land, but I have barely seen a single bush, or flowers, or a single piece of flora to really give any sense of detail. There’s cow parsley in the fields, but the rest of the land is barren and really needs perking up. With so much empty space I’d expect there to be roads lined with bracken and ferns, with flowers in the pastures, and even some mud and fallow in places. I
Your animal shelters in the pastures are all identical to one another, which looks a little uniform. Perhaps consider making them all a little different to one another, for a sense of organic realism.
---
This looks like a long wall of complaints, but please try and think of them as possible things to make what you’ve already done a little bit more polished and realistic. Sometimes the devil is in the detail!
EStoop
Knight of Fairmarket
May I add to Arkil's post that literally all the fields are surrounded by 2 block high hedges, which make exploring the lands really boring. Consider removing them around regular fields, and mix some lengths of fence between hedges at the pastures.
Every field is also surrounded on all sides by roads. Why are these roads on all sides? As long as there is at least one entry to the fields, that is connected to a road, there is no need for any more roads around it.
I also noticed two flaws with the mills at Durwall. First of all, the type of mill they represent is able to rotate on it's base. However, they have solid wooden staircases that would splinter as soon as the mill would be rotated to face the wind. Secondly, the blades of the windmills should be as close to the windmill as possible, so the mill is balanced properly.
Lastly, I noticed at a lot of the villages/hamlets that the houses are really close together while there is absolutely nothing stopping the residents from having build their houses a little further apart. Rural villages are usually really spread out, with large gardens with crops and small animal pens in them for personal use (the fields are the property of the lord, and so is everything produced on them). Large villages get denser near the center, but only Durwell town seems to be big enough for this occurence.
Every field is also surrounded on all sides by roads. Why are these roads on all sides? As long as there is at least one entry to the fields, that is connected to a road, there is no need for any more roads around it.
I also noticed two flaws with the mills at Durwall. First of all, the type of mill they represent is able to rotate on it's base. However, they have solid wooden staircases that would splinter as soon as the mill would be rotated to face the wind. Secondly, the blades of the windmills should be as close to the windmill as possible, so the mill is balanced properly.
Lastly, I noticed at a lot of the villages/hamlets that the houses are really close together while there is absolutely nothing stopping the residents from having build their houses a little further apart. Rural villages are usually really spread out, with large gardens with crops and small animal pens in them for personal use (the fields are the property of the lord, and so is everything produced on them). Large villages get denser near the center, but only Durwell town seems to be big enough for this occurence.
an_escaped_duck
Envoy
At a crossroads, and unsure how to proceed.
Looking at all the feedback, and feedback ingame, it has become clear to me that Durwell has many underlying issues. I have tried very hard with the project but I've made lots of mistakes. Whether it can be put down to it being my first project, mistakes made in planning, or myself not accepting feedback (which I am very sorry for and am trying to work on), I am not very happy with the project and I know many of you aren't either. I pride myself in quality work and I cannot content myself with the project in its current state. I could nuke it and redo everything (which is pretty much off the table), I could redo most of the project (which would not address underlying issues in planning and compositon), or I could address the feedback above and have an unfinished and flawed project which I object to personally. All in all I would mostly like to start fresh and have a chance to make everything perfect from the get go, so that I can work on a finished product that I, and everyone, can be proud of. Mistakes I have made do not stop with the project, either. I would like to apologize, especially to members of the mod team, for being standoffish and inconsiderate for their opinions which obviously hold more weight than mine. I have gotten off on the wrong foot with some people and I hope you will forgive me. My intentions as a member of this server were always good and I would ask for help on how to move forward with the project so that everyone is happy.
Sincerely,
-Duck
Looking at all the feedback, and feedback ingame, it has become clear to me that Durwell has many underlying issues. I have tried very hard with the project but I've made lots of mistakes. Whether it can be put down to it being my first project, mistakes made in planning, or myself not accepting feedback (which I am very sorry for and am trying to work on), I am not very happy with the project and I know many of you aren't either. I pride myself in quality work and I cannot content myself with the project in its current state. I could nuke it and redo everything (which is pretty much off the table), I could redo most of the project (which would not address underlying issues in planning and compositon), or I could address the feedback above and have an unfinished and flawed project which I object to personally. All in all I would mostly like to start fresh and have a chance to make everything perfect from the get go, so that I can work on a finished product that I, and everyone, can be proud of. Mistakes I have made do not stop with the project, either. I would like to apologize, especially to members of the mod team, for being standoffish and inconsiderate for their opinions which obviously hold more weight than mine. I have gotten off on the wrong foot with some people and I hope you will forgive me. My intentions as a member of this server were always good and I would ask for help on how to move forward with the project so that everyone is happy.
Sincerely,
-Duck
Loras and I made those windmills as part of our sub-app for Hamlet 1 so we can handle fixing them.
And as a general note, from a read of Stoop and Ark's feedback I'd hate for you to be discouraged Duck, I don't think any of the points they raised are insurmountable and I'm positive that this project can be finished to the server's standards.
I'm happy to help with adding some variation to the fields, fixing the windmills, adding trees, yard details etc
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