Oldtown: Feedback and Suggestions

Iwan

Boldtown
Admin
No harm done.

You're absolutely right, Mars, when you ask for clarification.

We do not wish to set precedent for any project to overrule any other for no apparent reason other than that the newer project is like to be better. We're not going to operate like that.

Blackcrown and Three Towers are sacrificed for the sake of Oldtown, which, and I think we can all agree on that, is of a much higher importance than any of the other projects around it. This is a very special circumstance, and this procedure now does certainly not set precedent for any random project to overrule another.
Same counts for Highgarden. Have we made a mistake in allowing other projects as close to Highgarden as Holyhall to start before we knew how the lands were to look like? Yes, absolutely. We did not have this much foresight, but we should have anticipated it. We tried to intervene as soon as we realized the significance of the mistake and we offered a workaround that would not necessitate the removal of the project. The removal of an abandoned, only partially completed project does however not set any precedent that wasn't already established.
These are very special circumstances that do not apply to many other places on our map (if any). That we sacrifice something for the sake of King's Landing or Oldtown or Highgarden does not mean we'd sacrifice something similar for the sakes of Harvest Hall, Fairmarket or Horn Hill or any of the other 'regular' projects.

Other projects are removed because there are huge efforts underway to significantly improve the landscape that they happen to be located in. The work done on the Mander will make the river infinitly better. The efforts in the Vale brought a new kind of realism to this part of the map, that IMO is worth the hard work that's put into it. We try wherever we can to work around existing builds or re-integrate them in the new context. Sometimes, that can not achieved. Sometimes it's a matter of considering cost-benefit ratios (i.e. 'how much work does it require to bring this up to date' vs 'how much work would it be to open it again').

I agree that for these latter processes we need to establish clear, reliable rules. This debate deserves its own space on the forums however, I reckon.
 

Elduwin

Skinchanger
Hey, could we include underground limestone quarry? As in Paris, there's a huge amount of tunnels and quarries.
https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carrières_souterraines_de_Paris
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mines_of_Paris

1920px-Plan_paris_gerards1908_jms.jpg
 

SerLoras

Playwright
I am a really big fan of the progress on the Hightower, and I love the current choice of a round tower design that matches very well with the Nasmith illustration.

I do just want to register my own preference for a slightly different apportionment of the height of the various tiers on the tower. Currently the tiers all seem to be of about the same height. I much prefer the more irregular distribution of heights seen on the Nasmith drawing, where the second tier at the base is much taller, the third their is rather squat, and the fifth tier at the top of the tower also has a bit more height.

I think the uneven tier heights creates a more realistic feel and gives the sense of the tower being built gradually in stages over time. I have included a little mock up of what I am talking about.

 

Howy

Royal Messenger
I am wary about raising the height of that level as that is going to be the Garden tier. I've specifically designed it as such that if there are some small pines or similar there is no obstruction of the next tier up. If I follow your proposed changes the garden trees will obscure the next tier up. See Nasmith's drawing for what I mean regarding 'garden'. He has included some greenery there which due to the sheer scale of his depiction is possible without obstructing the next tier, however due to our smaller scale Hightower and the shape/size of minecraft blocks it will not be as visible as I would prefer.

As such, officially until I have planned interior floors, I will be leaving the height as is. The floors will inevitable have to go up and down to different degrees to accommodate floor planning and scaling. I will consider the changes then, especially if I need to, say, reduce one tier to 9 high (for a 9-high room) and increase the other tier to 27 high (or something to that effect).

Its possible once the gardens are added that the tiers will not be as even-appearing as they currently are. We discussed this in-game regarding a 'wedding cake' appearance, which I believe is contributed to by the lack of current detailing and the wool palette.
 
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Elduwin

Skinchanger
Hey, could we include underground limestone quarry? As in Paris, there's a huge amount of tunnels and quarries.
https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carrières_souterraines_de_Paris
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mines_of_Paris

1920px-Plan_paris_gerards1908_jms.jpg
Hey @Iwan, I was wondering if you had plans of underground quarries and necropolis under Oldtown. Would be a nice touch.
The necropolises would also have been extremely necessary to burry all the dead from the Great Spring Sickness, not 100 years before the server time. https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Great_Spring_Sickness
 
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Emoticone11

The Dark Lord Sauron
Hey @Iwan, I was wondering if you had plans of underground quarries and necropolis under Oldtown. Would be a nice touch.
The necropolises would also have been extremely necessary to burry all the dead from the Great Spring Sickness, not 100 years before the server time. https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Great_Spring_Sickness

I'd love to help with the OT undercity when we get to that point! I had a blast making some of the catacombs in KL.
 

Auscarbone

Messenger
Hello! I was just thinking, as we are in the process of planning Oldtown, it would be a good time to start thinking about what subjects would be studied at the citadel. Currently, and as far as I am aware, we have a few common faculties planned, like the a house of healing, with lecture halls etc. I personally feel this is probably quite important, as such a list of subjects would inspire what buildings we build (a master can’t learn ravenry without a place to study it!). So I did a little bit of research on the subject and compiled a list, including some of my own guesswork. By no means am I saying this is definitive, but I wanted to open up the conversation.

In the medieval period, the equivalent organisation would have been a university. Unlike today, all students studied the same courses, known as the seven liberal arts. This included the trivium (grammar, rhetoric, and logic) followed by the quadrivium (arithmetic, astronomy, geometry, and music). Following such studies, one could continue study in one of the higher faculties (theology, medicine, or canon (church) law). As the medieval period progressed, with increasing interest in antiquity, common studies came to include physics, metaphysics and moral philosophy.

CANON:
As you are probably aware, each link on a maester’s chain, represented a mastery of study. In book canon, there are 15 known link metals, of which only 6 have assigned studies. Being 21 archmaesters however, it may be assumed that there are 21 possible subjects. Note that ravenry, economics, medicine and whatever platinum represents are the most commonly studied subjects.

Known Links:
• black iron- ravenry
• bronze- histories (perhaps astronomy or astrology)
• yellow gold- economic mathematics
• iron- warcraft
• silver- medicine, healing and anatomy
• Valyrian steel- higher mysteries (magic)

Known Link Metals:
• steel
• tin
• pewter
• platinum
• red gold
• lead
• electrum
• copper
• brass

SEMI-CANON:
Other semi-canon sources assign studies to other link metals.

HBO Making of the Show
• copper- history
• bronze- astronomy
• steel- construction

The Measter’s Chain Special
• Lead- poison

RPG’s
• Bronze- astronomy
• Copper- history
• Electrum- astrology
• Pale steel- smithing

This list (even if we do include the semi-canon) unfortunately still leaves 5 known link metals incomplete, so I took the liberty to provide some suggestions for each, taking inspiration from what each metal symbolises.

• Tin represents the breath of life- metaphysics
• Pewter represents creation of toxicity- chemistry/pyromancy
• Platinum represents purity and endurance- arithmetic and geometry
• Red gold represents a rich intelligence- grammar
• Brass represent pure truth and judgement- moral philosophy/law

Again, if we assume each archmeaster is head of a study area, there are 5 more possible subjects. Some other faculties which I think would fit in include: weather (canon), theology (I know they have a troubled relationship with religion, but so too do they with magic), physical sciences, music or rhetoric (lack of arts), and diplomacy (as many maesters act as diplomats).

Thanks for reading!
 

Elduwin

Skinchanger
Hello! I was just thinking, as we are in the process of planning Oldtown, it would be a good time to start thinking about what subjects would be studied at the citadel. Currently, and as far as I am aware, we have a few common faculties planned, like the a house of healing, with lecture halls etc. I personally feel this is probably quite important, as such a list of subjects would inspire what buildings we build (a master can’t learn ravenry without a place to study it!). So I did a little bit of research on the subject and compiled a list, including some of my own guesswork. By no means am I saying this is definitive, but I wanted to open up the conversation.

In the medieval period, the equivalent organisation would have been a university. Unlike today, all students studied the same courses, known as the seven liberal arts. This included the trivium (grammar, rhetoric, and logic) followed by the quadrivium (arithmetic, astronomy, geometry, and music). Following such studies, one could continue study in one of the higher faculties (theology, medicine, or canon (church) law). As the medieval period progressed, with increasing interest in antiquity, common studies came to include physics, metaphysics and moral philosophy.

CANON:
As you are probably aware, each link on a maester’s chain, represented a mastery of study. In book canon, there are 15 known link metals, of which only 6 have assigned studies. Being 21 archmaesters however, it may be assumed that there are 21 possible subjects. Note that ravenry, economics, medicine and whatever platinum represents are the most commonly studied subjects.

Known Links:
• black iron- ravenry
• bronze- histories (perhaps astronomy or astrology)
• yellow gold- economic mathematics
• iron- warcraft
• silver- medicine, healing and anatomy
• Valyrian steel- higher mysteries (magic)

Known Link Metals:
• steel
• tin
• pewter
• platinum
• red gold
• lead
• electrum
• copper
• brass

SEMI-CANON:
Other semi-canon sources assign studies to other link metals.

HBO Making of the Show
• copper- history
• bronze- astronomy
• steel- construction

The Measter’s Chain Special
• Lead- poison

RPG’s
• Bronze- astronomy
• Copper- history
• Electrum- astrology
• Pale steel- smithing

This list (even if we do include the semi-canon) unfortunately still leaves 5 known link metals incomplete, so I took the liberty to provide some suggestions for each, taking inspiration from what each metal symbolises.

• Tin represents the breath of life- metaphysics
• Pewter represents creation of toxicity- chemistry/pyromancy
• Platinum represents purity and endurance- arithmetic and geometry
• Red gold represents a rich intelligence- grammar
• Brass represent pure truth and judgement- moral philosophy/law

Again, if we assume each archmeaster is head of a study area, there are 5 more possible subjects. Some other faculties which I think would fit in include: weather (canon), theology (I know they have a troubled relationship with religion, but so too do they with magic), physical sciences, music or rhetoric (lack of arts), and diplomacy (as many maesters act as diplomats).

Thanks for reading!
What about botany / herbalism? It's far enough from medicine to be its own subject imo.
Could have agronomy too, like knowledge of the crops, how to farm, seasons to sow or plow, plants to grow, etc.
There could be geology too, but that's a bit specific maybe.

Also many maesters have written books on foreign civilizations, so maybe something like "study of foreign civilizations"?
 

jmcmarq

Envoy
Ideas for OT tunnels

I am writing this entry to propose some chamber-tunnel ideas for Oldtown underearth.

-Sewage system, with tunnels and cesspools (this is obvious is going to be done).
-Cysterns of drinkable water (this is obvious is going to be done).

related to the spring plagues:

-Quarantine pits/chambers with rooms (now buried-sealed or used for other purposes)
-hidden/ilegal laboratories, (underground cramped rooms where odd people did, or is doing illegal medical research.
-improvised underground septs, (now forgotten)
-Rooms for corpse treatment/management, such as incineration crematories or preservation (some of them currently used)
-Catacombs and crypts.

Smuggling tunnels:
-illegal taverns, inns, brothels, black markets, housing for scum... activities that people does not want to see in general.