Terra Project - Field of Fire

Jakethesnake8_8

Aeromancer
Pronouns
he/him
Earlier in this thread Stan mentioned the proximity to Peasedale. While we brushed that off at the time I think I'd like to remind us of how close it is due to the quite large size of the septry. I don't think it needs the amount of "Industries" going on that it currently has. For instance a meadery, wax workshop (bees im assuming?), and cheese making would typically be set aside for like 1 complex within most projects. It seems like this much would be hard to support as well and why are all these things necessary? So like going back to the peasedale septry surely it would be better to have 2 small Septries in close proximity rather than 1 large one which is larger than most of the castles in the area and then another decent sized septry nearby. While IRL monasteries tended to be fortresses of their own the scale of our server and also the fact that its post Aegon's Conquest so not much need for defense and solidarity now that you are united means it is unecessary. It seems to just be a bit too much in my opinion. I had thought of the septry as being smaller and more quaint as it is more of a memorial.
I agree with Scub here, and I think the size of this septry is too big, and its proximity to Peasedale are huge drawbacks to it. There's a lot going on in terms of industry as well. There's not really a reason to have such a big septry right next to Corne as well. It's proximity to Goode and Corne shouldn't require it to be too self sufficient, as surely they can trade with nearby villages. Additionally, the septry is in the Reach, an area known for its fertility and good agriculture, so it doesn't need to have all these different food substitutes. Another point, is that it's right acoss from a hamlet, which makes the whole area look very busy and urban. Furthermore, the palette isn't cohesive with the areas around it, which all use grey palettes, and we see no evidence of red clay being dug up to supply the septry with these red bricks, and given its size, you'd need a lot of clay for that. The red/dun palette doesn't really fit the reach either, and a few houses even use stormlands palettes.

Thanks everyone these are some great ideas.

I've reworked the stone/gravel mix a bit. Swapped in Reach pebbles for the gravel.
Still trying out flower mixes, but not hating this mix of fire weed/buttercups/orange sun stars/red asters.
View attachment 6328

I tried out the volcanic stone and reckon it could work, but super restrained since it can look a bit bubbly.
View attachment 6327

Dutch I agree that we shouldn't let forests become the space filler by default, so not against giving the Reach more plains in principle. I'm just trying to figure out if the forest to the north west you've suggested is vanilla or was added as part of Bushy(?). It doesn't look too bad (pic below), so not in a huge rush to clear it out.
View attachment 6326

Rough plan of the fire streaks. The Targ forces were described as encamping in the north (having come from Stoney Sept), with the Gardener/Lannister forces in the south. The dragons then swooped in and breathed fire on all sides to trap them in, making them easy pickings for the Targ archers/spearmen.
View attachment 6329
The books describe the field at the time of the battle as a "field of golden wheat". I'd be fine to extend the existing wheat fields in the east, though you could make the argument that the fire sterilised the soil for crops and the area was abandoned for farming, getting slowly reclaimed by nature in the centuries since.

Lastly a small sept would be a really cool idea NMF! Maybe Aegon had it built afterwards as a recompense to the Seven for the slaughter/pay respects to the Warrior. If this gets approved I'd totally open it up to expressions of interest in completing it as a mini.
Additionally, Cash and Eld approved the idea of a SMALL sept that pays respects to the warrior. However, the main statue seems to be one of the Crone instead. A lot of flowers are used in the septry, which don't grow in the areas around the septry.

From what I can see, there are a lot of industries here, we have a tannery, a fishery, a mill, a candle maker, a cheesemaker, orchards, and herb fields. I think this is a lot for one septry, and there are also no pastures nearby to support cheesemaking on a scale large enough for the septry to require it. The amount of outbuildings in this septry really make it feel like a hamlet.

While I understand this is based in realism and all that, I think that we can't sacrifice scale for realism. Also, what happens when the Ring and Corne get picked up, and they have their own industries? Adding onto the Peasedale industries, there's wayyyyyyy too much going on here.

-Jake
 

Telcontar

Street Preacher
Hey Jake, thanks for the feedback. Firstly, I think you're probably right about the flowers, I definitly didn't think too much about which ones I used at the time. I can try to see what flowers grow more locally and reduce the variety I've got atm!

Regarding cheese and cows: Originally I imagined the septons might graze livestock on the field of fire itself, but i think now that it's not such a good idea. While I *think* you only need a very few cows or goats to justify making cheese, I do agree that a whole building for it is probably overkill, perhaps just a small press outside the kitchen would suffice?

I am aware that the gradient is KL dun, and not at all in keeping with the surrounding area. I did this intentionally after Ric suggested that it could add a link to it's Targaryen construction in the early years of Aegons reign, when he was also building the Red Keep and KL. Personally, I've really grown to like this idea, and although it's some distance from KL, the Blackwater could provide a slightly less ardous means of transportation for stone. The expense and effort to transport the stone could also be considered a show of wealth/power by Aegon. However, I realise that these motivations aside, it's a clearly different palette to the rest of the region and could be out of keeping with the defined gradient areas, so I acknowledge that this needs to be discussed further. I didn't intend to use a stormlands palette anywhere, I was trying to do just the bottom layers of the KL dun gradient for smaller and/or messier walls, but I guess that it is made up exclusively of Stormlands bricks :/

The red clay bricks are only used in 3 medium-small buildings, and were intended to represent later additions to the septry. Both KL and Stoneysept - down and up-river of the FoF respectively - have clay digging/brick making facilities, so I assumed it reasonably likely that the blackwater around the FoF is also suitable for clay digging. There's no signs of it as I was imagining that brickworks would have been temporary and only in existance for the duration of construction. Perhaps some leftover remmants of clay pits along the river could help?

On to the real crux of the discussion, the size of the septry and the number of industries:
Overall, I do still stand by the size of the septry and the idea that westeros probably has a ton of septries, however I do understand your point about the surrounding villages perhaps making the area feel crowded. I don't think that's necessarily a terrible thing, as the area is where the Gold Road crosses the blackwater, making it an area of high throughfare and possibly trade? That said, you're right that there's a lot of other stuff around and the scale of the server makes everything much closer together than it should be. With that in mind, I could see dropping the parchment-making area as it's probably the most industrial part of the septry, removing the cheese-making building, and reducing the size of the meadery and possibly the wax working workshop and bakehouse. In fact, the candle-making could be done entirely outside if you think that would help reduce the impression of complexy/industry? I have also considered the possibility that the fishing weir could overlap with Cobb, being something that the villagers and septons could both use to catch fish. I don't know if that would help the industry overload by sharing it with the hamlet?

The more I think about it, the more I also think that the watermill probably isn't appropriate. Cash mentioned the possibility of adding some crop terraces to the northern slope of the hill a while back - which would have provided grain to mill - but if keeping things small is an issue, those fields are probably not an option, making Girdle the closet source of grain, and Gridle has a windmill already. AerioOndos also had a good idea, suggesting that the orchard and beehives could lie outside the septry walls, near the existing forest. It would require some shuffling around, and I don't think it's necessary, but it would reduce the footprint of the boundry wall.

Up to this point I've been talking about outbuildings and workshops. Regarding the septry proper, do you think that's too big or just the outbuildings? I admit, I'm still not convinced that the septry itself is too large, but you're right that the original brief called for small one :/

Finally, you're totally right that the septry was meant to be devoted to the warrior originally. I suggested to Cash that it be dedicated to the Father instead, for reasons detailed in my application. The statue is just my really bad first attempt at a father statue :p Fixing it is on my todo list.

To be honest, I always just imagined a small field chapel, dedicated as a memorial to the battle. Something like the Hougoumont Chapel at Waterloo.

That's fair Dutch, I ran with the idea of an abbey or Septry, rather than a Shrine or Sept :/ I think I imagined the context as something much more similar to Battle Abbey than Hougoumont.

Anyway, thank you for the feedback, I've tried to address everything you brought up! I guess I'll try to hold off on too much further building until there's been some more discussion around this.
 
I want to add that I think the two septries being in two different regions, i. e. different patrons, and being close to each other could also mean an interesting "armsrace" of making it bigger and more ornate, which was not too uncommon. I know that it happened with the churches of St. Jost in Blatten and Hergiswald near Lucerne, which were both funded by rich Lucerne families. But of course those are just headcanon explenations of how it could work and despite those, the area may still appear crowded depending on what standard you hold it to.
 

CashBanks

A Knight at the Opera
Staff member
Sorry for the delay in weighing in here, I've been enthusiastic about Telcontar's plans from the initial application and had endorsed the idea of a relatively wealthy Septry consistent with Battle Abbey I was proposing as inspiration.

I was fine with a water wheel since they were reportedly very common in the medieval period we use as inspiration, and the Blackwater is canonically fast flowing and could likely accommodate one. If they're growing wheat you could reasonably speculate they might've built one to speed up the pace of flour production, not just for the sept residents but for charity/whatever communion equivalent the Faith might have too.

I'd be wary about too quickly labelling things like one cheese making area an "industry". Asfaik Telcontar didn't have a whole cheese factory planned, or a dozen bee hives for a honey production and export trade. Relatively passive activities like this don't strike me as hugely problematic if they're not a full on commercial scale production.

That being said, there obviously has to be a balance and too many elements can distract from the whole picture. Next time we're online together Tel we can go through and confirm how many side projects these monks have going on and prune out anything that's probably not needed.

And just my two cents on the location/proximity to Peasedale/Bechester, I think the point that these septons are custodians of the Field of Fire, a landmark location (though they might be feeling nervous under Bobby B), plus it's located on a prime position along the Gold Road at a major Blackwater crossing means this would be a highly trafficked area in terms of commerce and travelers, means the area could likely accommodate a septry consistent with Telcontaro's plans. Distance between locations is such a messy concept on our server anyway we'll get headaches trying to rationalise it too much.

We're all just out here doing our best trying to make nice pretty things :)
 

AerioOndos

Donkey Lord
Staff member
Another point is that it is reasonably close to the new location of Tumbler's Falls, where Tywin and Mace join there forces and go downriver in barges (brought by Mace). This project might be a good excuse to terraform the southern bank of the river to create an area, perhaps a beach, where several thousand men could embark.