Planning [Map Repository] Riverlands

[Mayflumes]

I think renaming projects is fine, although perhaps a bit lazy, as these projects are often made based on the small amounts of lore available, such as house sigils, and their builders made stylistic choices to represent specific aspects of the house. It shouldn't be as simple as changing the warps though.

There should be something resembling a post approval process in which either a mod or a committee goes through the project and makes sure it reflects any new canon/information it would receive as a result of the switch. Switching would require the changing of various minor details such as wool flags and house banners etc.

 

[EStoop]

Awesome, I have no problem renaming projects to better fit canon. Could you give a specific list of suggestions for the projects you want to rename?
e.g. Keath -> Erenford etc.

Can do. However, I'm not comfortable nor do I think it's wise to have these decisions made by single person.

Are you saying you will swap Wayfarer's and Wayne? That would make more sense to me.
Does this also mean that Blanetree, Deddings, Perryn, and Mandrake are later houses, also tasked with defence?

We can swap Wayfarer's Rest and Wayne, it can work out both ways.
It could be. Another possibility is that (some) these have been bannermen of the Tully's.

I think renaming projects is fine, although perhaps a bit lazy, as these projects are often made based on the small amounts of lore available, such as house sigils, and their builders made stylistic choices to represent specific aspects of the house. It shouldn't be as simple as changing the warps though.

There should be something resembling a post approval process in which either a mod or a committee goes through the project and makes sure it reflects any new canon/information it would receive as a result of the switch. Switching would require the changing of various minor details such as wool flags and house banners etc.

You're right, changing the project names and warps is a lazy "fix". However, I think it's preferable to undoing all the work that has been done.

I'm more than willing to be part of a committee to oversee the switch.

 

[DutchGuard]

Dropping this here for reference:

Green: Unaffected
Yellow: Evidence of raids, or battles
Orange: Heavy raids, castles either captured or besieged
Red: Heavy damages, where Gregor, Amory, and Vargo have concentrated their raiding.

Blue Line is Robb, who is camped outside Riverrun.
Red Line is Tywin who is camped inside Harrenhal.
Green Line is the Hound, who, after the Battle of the Green Fork, is sent by Tywin to wreak havoc on the Riverlands. He could be anywhere in the red area.
Yellow Line is Roose, who is camped outside the Twins.

 

[Vickon_Greyjoy]

so if there are multiple armies at a location you want a large encampment with tents and all that surrounding the castle?

 

[DutchGuard]

so if there are multiple armies at a location you want a large encampment with tents and all that surrounding the castle?

Yes I would expect that to be the case. Tywin's host would probably fit within the walls of Harrenhal.

 

[DutchGuard]

Below is the Status Quo, as of this post, of all projects in the Riverlands. An asterisk (*) denotes a location EStoop has suggested moving with reasons outlined in this document. I have based my decision on "correct" and "incorrect" placement based on this document. Where a completed project falls only slightly foul of canon I have chosen to ignore the recommendations in favour of saving the completed build, but feel free to suggest otherwise.

Completed projects in acceptable locations with no changes required:
Bechester
Erenford
Grey*
High Heart
Keath*
Misty Isle
Mummer's Ford
Oldstones
Peasedale
Pinkmaiden
Stoney Sept
Saltpans
Seagard
Stone Hedge
Shawney*
Terrick*
Vypren

Completed projects in the correct location requiring updates to reflect wartime Riverlands:
Acorn Hall
Crossroads Inn
Goodbrook
Lambswold (Bracken)
Lord Harroway's Town
Lychester
Rankenfell
Sallydance
Tumbler's Falls
Willow Wood

Completed projects in the correct location, expected to be redone:
Castle Darry
Harrenhal
Hollow Hill
Merrydown Dell
Riverrun
The Twins

Completed or abandoned projects which are in the wrong location:
Blanetree*
Raventree Hall*
Sherrer
Wendish Town
Whispering Wood*
Atranta* [abandoned]
Wayfarer's Rest* [abandoned]

WIP projects in the correct location with no changes required:
Fairmarket
Hag's Mire
Haigh
Maidenpool

WIP or abandoned projects in the correct location requiring updates to reflect wartime Riverlands:
Corne
Lolliston*
Grell [abandoned]*

Projects not started or abandoned which are in acceptable locations:
Belgrave (Crone's Mill)
Bourney
Charlton*
Deddings [abandoned]
Goode
Hogg Hall (Wode)
Isle of Faces
Old Willow (Strong)*
Paege*
Pemford*
Sevenstreams
Whitewalls (Butterwell)*

Projects not started which are in the wrong location:
Bigglestone*
Chambers*
Nutt*
Wayn*

Projects not started which have not been located:
Mandrake
Perryn
Penny

 

[DutchGuard]

What I want to address specifically is those projects which are labelled above as being in the wrong location, and would like mod approval for these changes.

Blanetree*
Currently Blanetree consists of only a single keep, and is surrounded by Seagard mini's. Canon suggests it is located more centrally in the Riverlands, and agree with Stoop's placement.

Atranta* [abandoned] and Wayfarer's Rest* [abandoned]
As House Vance of Wayfarer's Rest is the first on the scene at the Battle near Golden Tooth (and for other reasons described in Stoop's document), it makes sense to swap the locations of the two branches.
Beyond a simple swap, Stoop recommends putting Wayfarer's Rest closer to Acorn Hall (as House Smallwood is sworn to the Wayfarer Vances), east of the Red Fork. I would agree with this judgement and would suggest placing between Acorn Hall and Stoney Sept, as indicated by EStoop's map. This way the castle can avoid the path that Gregor takes between Pinkmaiden and Stone Hedge.

Raventree Hall* and Whispering Wood*
These two locations should also swap, as EStoop has suggested, and as my map above shows.

Nutt*
Is currently in the way of the proposed new location for Raventree Hall, so will need to be moved. EStoop suggests assigning it to Nutten, though the area around the Crossroads Inn is already fairly crowded, so would rather have it moved to the lands around the Twins, which are otherwise mostly empty.

Sherrer and Wendish Town
These two towns should be near the Mummer's Ford and much closer to the Westerlands, within arms reach of Gregor's raids. They are currently in the lands of House Shawney for some reason.

Bigglestone*, Chambers*, and Perryn
Estoop suggests these should all be near to each other, and near to the God's Eye, as they all participated in the Battle by the Lakeshore. Open to suggestions for exact new locations.

In the place of Bigglestone's current location we can place Penny. The former location of Chambers can be absorbed into Frey lands around the Twins.

Wayn*
Good reasoning that Wayn participated in the Battle at the Great Fork with Deddings and Terrick and so should be nearer to these two houses. I would suggest assigning House Wayn to the area around Merrydown Dell.

In the place of Wayn's current location we can place Mandrake.

 

[Nomorefun_]

Personally for me it is ok, to just rename Keath project to any one which will fit in the area.
For route plans I disagree for routs by Lychester lands which now going by minor roads used only by peasant, Gregor and Tywin should use main road in the region the River Road

 

[DutchGuard]

Personally for me it is ok, to just rename Keath project to any one which will fit in the area.
For route plans I disagree for routs by Lychester lands which now going by minor roads used only by peasant, Gregor and Tywin should use main road in the region the River Road

At the moment I don't think there is a significant enough reason to move Keath.

The routes shown on the map are only indicative.

Please check this thread for my reasoning as to why these routes are taken. They key thing is that Tywin and Gregor capture certain castles which is why there may be some odd routing. Blame GRRM for that puzzle.

 

[DutchGuard]

Quick bump for mods to have a look at the above proposal.

 

[Antony]

Completed projects in the correct location requiring updates to reflect wartime Riverlands:
Acorn Hall
Crossroads Inn
Goodbrook
Lambswold (Bracken)
Lord Harroway's Town
Lychester
Pinkmaiden
Rankenfell
Sallydance
Tumbler's Falls
Willow Wood

Imma say Pinkmaiden adequately shows the war and raids going on, take a stroll around and see.
Litteraly everything there is either burned, leveled or ruined.

 

[CashBanks]

Hey Dutch, this is awesome work, you’ve gone much further down the rabbit hole than most others have on this subject.

We’ve canvassed around and none of the mods have any particular objections to these plans. Perhaps if you and Stoop want to trade notes and put together a final list of proposed changes, you can post it here and that’ll be the last chance for anyone argue about it before they get locked in. Mods can tie break if you and Stoop can’t decide on something.

 

[DutchGuard]

Hey Dutch, this is awesome work, you’ve gone much further down the rabbit hole than most others have on this subject.

We’ve canvassed around and none of the mods have any particular objections to these plans. Perhaps if you and Stoop want to trade notes and put together a final list of proposed changes, you can post it here and that’ll be the last chance for anyone argue about it before they get locked in. Mods can tie break if you and Stoop can’t decide on something.

Thanks Cash (and the mod team!)
EStoop and I had a brief chat and he gave me his blessing for the above changes (lots of them come straight from his suggestions). But by all means Stoop, post some additional feedback (or indeed, further changes you would like to see), and we can come up with a final list of amendments.

 

[DutchGuard]

Imma say Pinkmaiden adequately shows the war and raids going on, take a stroll around and see.
Litteraly everything there is either burned, leveled or ruined.

I included it there in case we ever wanted to expand the lands around Pinkmaiden, but I suppose it's a given that they will need to be coherent with the existing destruction. In any case, I've edited the list to avoid confusion.

 

[DutchGuard]

With Stoop's approval, please see below the final proposed changes.

Blanetree: to be moved from near Seagard to west of Riverrun.

Wayfarer's Rest: to be moved from the central Riverlands to the area between Stoney Sept and Acorn Hall

Atranta: will be assigned to the presently abandoned Wayfarer's Rest build.

Raventree Hall and Whispering Wood: are to swap locations.

Nutt: is to be placed near the Twins.

Sherrer, Wendish Town, and the Mummers Ford: Are to be arranged in a manner similar to this, and effectively lumped together as a single project:

The canon reasoning for this can be found in this post.

Wayn: is to be moved to the central Riverlands, and will control the lands of Merrydown Dell (and likely be captured, destroyed, or under siege).

Mandrake: is to be located in Wayn's former position in the northern Riverlands.

Bigglestone, Chambers, and Perryn: to be located west of the God's Eye, in areas otherwise unassigned.

Penny: is to be located at the former location of Bigglestone in the northeast Riverlands.

Once these changes are approved and new warps set, I can start drawing the borders for this region.

 

[Antony]

Somehow, I cant see the images, that normal?

 

[CashBanks]

Yeah can’t see the pics mon ami

 

[DutchGuard]

Dangit, let me try again:

Blanetree: to be moved from near Seagard to west of Riverrun.


Wayfarer's Rest: to be moved from the central Riverlands to the area between Stoney Sept and Acorn Hall


Atranta: will be assigned to the presently abandoned Wayfarer's Rest build.

Raventree Hall and Whispering Wood: are to swap locations.


Nutt: is to be placed near the Twins.


Sherrer, Wendish Town, and the Mummers Ford: Are to be arranged in a manner similar to this, and effectively lumped together as a single project:

The canon reasoning for this can be found in this post.

Wayn: is to be moved to the central Riverlands, and will control the lands of Merrydown Dell (and likely be captured, destroyed, or under siege).


Mandrake: is to be located in Wayn's former position in the northern Riverlands.


Bigglestone, Chambers, and Perryn: to be located west of the God's Eye, in areas otherwise unassigned.


Penny: is to be located at the former location of Bigglestone in the northeast Riverlands.


Once these changes are approved and new warps set, I can start drawing the borders for this region.

 

[DutchGuard]

Quick bump for anyone that might have missed this that wants to make any suggestions, and also requesting a final review by the mod team CashBanks .

 

[Ric]

Hey Dutch, I noticed your list does not include Whitewalls, despite it being in a different placement in Stoops map/doc from the current warp. Shouldn't it change locations too, to be closer to the God's Eye?