Horn Hill by Dragons, Wolf and Inf

Iwan

Lean forward and grab!
Admin
Feedback is never late, nor is it early - it arrives precisely when it means to.

Here's your feedback guys! Despite my semi-quote above, the feedback is a bit late and we (the modteam) apologise. Its extensive so I've put it in a Google Doc linked below:

Link to Feedback
 

Iwan

Lean forward and grab!
Admin
Maybe a solution to the town-issue is to have one town be the way they like, while the others will be much more decentralised and poor. The Tarly lords are able to field quite an army and I think there needs to be a fair amount of peasantry to represent that.

As for the no-redo rule, while I can see where you guys are coming from, I think it's an extremely slippery slope to introduce such a rule at WIP projects and if such a rule is introduced, it should be applied consistantly and put in the rules clearly.
 

Howy

Maester
Okay I am going to reply here because its Horn Hill relevant, but I'll quote in the other thread for clarity's sake.

So it seems that the 'redo cap' escalated into more than I thought. I was thinking within a Horn Hill scope. I will, as approving mod, clarify for Horn Hill. The modteam as a whole is dealing with the redo cap in the other thread (you may have noticed other mods responding. I have read the thread, but my focus is on Horn Hill.

Mods do reserve the right to object if they feel that a certain change to a project may not be the best course of action at the moment. That does include overhauls/redos. In the past, project leads have gone to the approving mods for approval of major changes. Whether it be lands, plotting, crops, or castles, approval has been sought first if major enough.

And guys I think thats occurred with Horn Hill so far too with requesting overhauls (I've approved two changes already). As I said I'm willing to approve another redo. But I do feel (personally) that the project is getting bogged down in ideas. Wrmd in previous builds has been known for creating top-quality projects with great efficiency. Normally builders who sped through projects (did so many in so little time) would skip steps, miss details, overlook quality. This wasn't the case for wrmd. You guys have been going for nearly a year now - which is fine for a project time, pretty normal actually. The issue is that the little progress on the extensive lands (not forgetting Renly's Camp as well) means there’s still a ways to go.

The 'redo cap' isn't a cap. I'm not going to specify that builders can only do so many redos broadly across the server. The mods might decide otherwise later on, and I can't speak for them as a whole in that case. But as approving mod for this project, for Horn Hill, I'm not going to be approving more than one more redo. Overhauls are fine - if you guys want to change a tower, or think some ints are look cruddy, then ask me and Ill approve away (really dont need to ask me for int changes in all honesty, I know little about them). But whole redos are detrimental to a project's progress. If you're satisfied with your newest castle version, thats cool. Post it here and Banty and I will be happy to approve it (on review ofc haha). What my original feedback post was saying was informing you I wasn't going to approve anymore after the next redo. It wasn't intended as a 'cap', it was intended to avoid you guys being blindsided by applying a new castle, disliking it, and then finding I wasn't going to approve another one. Now its clearly stirred some people up, and approaches to internal redos are being discussed in the other thread. For now, though, to avoid Horn Hill being bogged down and to get some real progress going beyond the castle, I'm only going to approve one more redo.
 

WhereRmyDragons

Cersei's Left Bob
Maester
Hey, sorry for the late response - the past few days were incredibly busy for me and Wolf was away, so we couldn't discuss our plans thoroughly. We now have reached a consensus on our plans, though. Here they are :)

1) Town1 aka Belle's - Our plan from the beginning was to either relocate it to Oldtown or update the palette to fit our lands. The southern-french-beauty-and-the-beast-brownish realness is lost with the latter option, so we've decided to move it to Oldtown, as a small town on the outskirts of the big city. The only condition is that we have authority over what happens with and within the town.
We'd have a smaller but ancient village community on the same spot. There are tests for that style above the current town.

2) Town2 aka River town - We really like the style that was invented for Belle's town, so we will use it here, with appropriate alterations. It would be nice if there are no bigger settlements or hamlets nearby, on the other side of the river (Highgarden territory), but this isn't the place to discuss that - we will talk to Tsar about the area.

3) The castle aka Redofort - I agree with everything you said, you know how I feel about the castle. With that said, the redo discussion is needed for other WIP and future projects. It is known where we stand with this issue, but on the smaller, HH-only scale, we agree with you.

4) Renly's camp aka Where is it? - Renly's camp is by far the most under-developed part of our project so far. We've discussed with Ark to make it a co-op, placing it in the area between Woodwright and Horn Hill, which would be a logical route for the camp. This isn't official yet, as we still need to do a lot of research on military camps. We will present you the plans once they're ready for an open discussion.

I believe that's all - thank you for your feedback, Howy. We (I) needed a push and we hope everything will go well from now on.

Dragons, Wolf and Fin
 

Elduwin

Maester
Why wouldn't the Renly's camp be north of HH instead of west? In the area between HG, HH and Whitegrove, north of the warp hornhillmanor
Wouldn't it make more sense for the camp to be close to both HH and HG?
 

WhereRmyDragons

Cersei's Left Bob
Maester
The camp had a tour all around the southern Reach, starting from Highgarden and ending there. The area between Woodwright and Horn Hill seems more convenient as Ark and us can work together, when with the option you described, we'd have to take a portion of Starpike's lands and figure out the roads there. Our plans consider the fact that the camp would take the shortest route (Woodwright-Horn Hill-Highgarden-roads by the Mander leading to Bitterbridge) because of the travelling expenses a huge military entourage would have.
 

Howy

Maester
Hey, sorry for the late response - the past few days were incredibly busy for me and Wolf was away, so we couldn't discuss our plans thoroughly. We now have reached a consensus on our plans, though. Here they are :)

1) Town1 aka Belle's - Our plan from the beginning was to either relocate it to Oldtown or update the palette to fit our lands. The southern-french-beauty-and-the-beast-brownish realness is lost with the latter option, so we've decided to move it to Oldtown, as a small town on the outskirts of the big city. The only condition is that we have authority over what happens with and within the town.
We'd have a smaller but ancient village community on the same spot. There are tests for that style above the current town.

2) Town2 aka River town - We really like the style that was invented for Belle's town, so we will use it here, with appropriate alterations. It would be nice if there are no bigger settlements or hamlets nearby, on the other side of the river (Highgarden territory), but this isn't the place to discuss that - we will talk to Tsar about the area.

3) The castle aka Redofort - I agree with everything you said, you know how I feel about the castle. With that said, the redo discussion is needed for other WIP and future projects. It is known where we stand with this issue, but on the smaller, HH-only scale, we agree with you.

4) Renly's camp aka Where is it? - Renly's camp is by far the most under-developed part of our project so far. We've discussed with Ark to make it a co-op, placing it in the area between Woodwright and Horn Hill, which would be a logical route for the camp. This isn't official yet, as we still need to do a lot of research on military camps. We will present you the plans once they're ready for an open discussion.

I believe that's all - thank you for your feedback, Howy. We (I) needed a push and we hope everything will go well from now on.

Dragons, Wolf and Fin
1) Sounds good, I think its more than reasonable you determine what happens with and within the town. However, location will be mod discretion so we can plan it in with the surrounding lands. I suspect we will either give you a broad area to specify it in, or multiple 'spots' to choose from. The village is fine as are the tests.

2) Yeah that area is at Tsar's own discretion within the HG borders. The rest sounds fine regarding the town and alterations.

3) Yep. I can state that currently the decision with Horn Hill is exclusive to Horn Hill, and doesn't set precedent for other builds in anyway.

4) I think Renly's Camp will need discussion. Since the main, canon location for it is 'Horn Hill' (i.e. near/in its lands) I think the discussion is well placed in this thread regarding its location.

Thanks for addressing the feedback. I know it was a bit of a rocky road, but I still look forward to what Horn Hill has to offer on completion.
 

Pixeld_

Builder
I have a few questions regarding Renly's Camp.

I want to apply for Hutcheson, but i first need to map out the area. Renly's camp is right in the middle of the terrain and i don't know how big it's supposed to be and should it maybe extend on the other side of the road and what. So can you please work this out so i can start on my app. :)

Piggie
 

Arkilstorm

Dowager Countess of Grantham
Maester
Hey Pigxle. Renly's Camp has been moved more north-west towards Old Flowers and Woodwright. This isnt it's final location, but a placeholder while we got the canon together to determine where it should be. Initially we were considering it being close to Horn Hill, which explains it's current location. If you want to go ahead with your plans, but perhaps take a look at it's new location, and leave a bit of a grey area for now. You can always amend your plans later.

Thanks
 

Howy

Maester
Hey guys, I'd like to ask you to provide an update for the moderator team on how this project is going.

Alongside that, I will be stepping down from approving mod of Horn Hill. Real life stuff has made my timeline a lot more busy, and other issues besides. Good luck with this project, I hope you provide it with the treatment the great house of Tarly deserves.

Another mod will take my place per normal procedures.
 

WhereRmyDragons

Cersei's Left Bob
Maester
Hello.
After talking to Ark and Wolf, I've decided to quit the Horn Hill co-op. It took me a while to realize I take no joy in doing it without Wolf. I believe this way my time on the server will be better spent. Hopefully, I'll return to Wolf (who is still the project lead) one day and do the project with him.

Dragons
 

CashBanks

Maester
BUMP
I'd love to know how this is going. Has much work been happening lately? I notice there's still a few Horn Hills floating in the sky. Is there a particular thing you guys are stuck on? What needs to happen to get the train moving again?
 
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