Ghaston Grey by MDMeaux

AerioOndos

Builder
In the books scorpions seem to barely be effective against dragons, they merely bounce off a dragons hide. but a scorpion nevertheless would be a nice touch. love the idea of an advanced naval base though.
 
Looks great, maybe add a ruined hamlet or abandoned sept in the "not a lot" section just to give people reason to explore that side of the island?
 

mdmeaux

Builder
In the books scorpions seem to barely be effective against dragons, they merely bounce off a dragons hide. but a scorpion nevertheless would be a nice touch. love the idea of an advanced naval base though.
I think whether a scorpion would actually have been effective is irrelevant, the Dornish probably didn't know that when they made it and would have wanted as many options as possible just in case.
Looks great, maybe add a ruined hamlet or abandoned sept in the "not a lot" section just to give people reason to explore that side of the island?
I agree something could go there, but I'm hesitant to add something for the sake of it without a good reason. I don't think a hamlet would make much sense as the only people that would live on the island would be in the castle. I don't see why they would build a Sept outside the castle when there would probably be a small chapel inside anyway. Also bear in mind this island really isn't going to be that big, so it shouldn't look too dull with nothing there.
 

Luciano_I

Nobuild
In the books scorpions seem to be quite efective agains dragons, and specially the dornish after the first invasion should know that (im looking at you meraxes)
 

AerioOndos

Builder
Yes but only because a bolt managed to go into the eye of the dragon. One could have graves scattered on the other side of the island if you want to add more detail, MDMeaux
 

CashBanks

Maester
Yes we could use an alternative jail to The Pit
I mean, great stuff, if LHT is all finished (I saw some ocean terra still needs to be done but not sure if it's part of the wider Shield Islands work?) then approved by me.
 

mdmeaux

Builder
Yes we could use an alternative jail to The Pit
I mean, great stuff, if LHT is all finished (I saw some ocean terra still needs to be done but not sure if it's part of the wider Shield Islands work?) then approved by me.
LHT has been post-approved by Eld, the ocean floor is going to be done all in one. Also, is pizzaproval still a thing? It's been a while for me and I vaguely remember seeing somewhere that it wasn't?
 

Emotione11

Maester
Hey mdmeaux,

Since I talked with this about you a bit already, I'm happy to take on the other approval for this project (pizzapprovals aren't a thing anymore). I think the overall plans seem good - not like there are a whole lot of surrounding areas to be dealt with, although I hope you can make the terraforming sufficiently interesting to compensate for that.

However, I'm not really content with the castle yet IMO. I think it needs a lot of work before I'm ready to approve it. In terms of layout and spatial arrangement, the mix between shapes and angles seems rather haphazard - the ways the diagonal walls join with the rectangular buildings seems rather haphazard, like here for instance, and overall it's kind of just forms a flat polygon with buildings at each corner. So if you look at it from any angle outside of the castle, it doesn't really feel like it has variation in "depth" (i.e. front-back) or height to it. Compare it to this picture of your inspiration Loarre, for instance:



Notice how it seems to have "layers" in terms of depth, and it also has a gradient in height as you move inwards towards the center (and also slightly as you move from left to right), which makes it a lot more spatially interesting.

Moreover, the towers seem proportionally very large, especially compared to the very small stretches of wall between them. I would suggest making the towers pretty small (by volume), but also expanding the footprint of the castle (by area) a little and adding more defensive towers, so that you're able to get an interesting cocentric shape like in that Loarre image above.

In terms of palette, it seems really wet and saturated, but for a barren rock in the ocean I would probably go for a more "sunbleached" color scheme, such as something like this (near high hermitage) for instance (I know I had that example on my plot with the same dark palette, but I think I've since changed my mind).

In the coming days I might try making a test as an example of what I mean.
 

mdmeaux

Builder
However, I'm not really content with the castle yet IMO. I think it needs a lot of work before I'm ready to approve it. In terms of layout and spatial arrangement, the mix between shapes and angles seems rather haphazard - the ways the diagonal walls join with the rectangular buildings seems rather haphazard, like here for instance, and overall it's kind of just forms a flat polygon with buildings at each corner. So if you look at it from any angle outside of the castle, it doesn't really feel like it has variation in "depth" (i.e. front-back) or height to it. Compare it to this picture of your inspiration Loarre, for instance:
Just a sketch I threw together, is this more like what you're looking for? Pretty rough so can be changed pretty easily.
10751076
 

EStoop

Peasant of Oldtown
Builder
May I introduce you to Isole Tremiti, a group of islands which have been used for internment since the time of Augustus (among other things).

I'd propose to make the fortifications more expansive and add something for those imprisoned to do, after all having them sit around all day is less productive than working them to death. Maybe a mine or quarry, or a farm/orchard to fill in the empty space on the island.





Edit | To elaborate on the making it more expansive comment, notice how the structure on Isole di San Nicola (centre island) is spread out in different layers up to the coast, where there is a harbour. In the plans in your app it seems as if the castle and harbour would be seperate entities, while them being part of the same complex would make the place more interesting and would make the harbour better defended, both from forces from the outside as against prisoners on the inside.
 
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Emotione11

Maester
Yes, absolutely to what Estoop said. Also, like what I said in my previous post, try to focus on making the layout cover large area (a lot of yard/bailey space) with many buildings of small volume. Currently your test is the opposite: the volume of the buildings are pretty big, but the overall area is small.
 

mdmeaux

Builder
I'm not too sure about the quarry/forced labour, mostly from a canonical/historical perspective. From what I've read, prisons weren't really used much as punishment until after the medieval era, they were mostly used to hold suspects awaiting punishment or trial (as happened to Andrey and Garin in the books). Then again, GRRM does go against this when he says that the prisoners were "left to rot and die", but that implies that they were left and neglected, not forced to work. If these are criminals that are so bad that just executing them isn't enough of a punishment and they have to be left to die over many years, I wouldn't have thought that giving them all pickaxes or other tools would be terribly safe. It also doesn't make too much sense to have something like a quarry far off on an island like that, wouldn't it just be easier to do it on the mainland where the stone can be transported away more easily?

As for the layout, I can work on something a little more expansive over the next few days. I personally dont see the castle being too sprawling; the description "perched on a rock" suggests to me something like, just as an example, this (Dubrovnik):1088
 

mdmeaux

Builder
Here's a more expansive layout I've come up with. The keep will be the same as the previous layout I did, excluding the cyan, light blue and orange wool. The red is just to give an indication of the actual island shape, the model I did ended up a bit squashed looking. There will be a few smaller buildings within the walls, this is just to give a basic overview.

Given the choice, I still prefer my previous layout as I think a more compact castle on top of a rock would look more menacing, but I would be happy to go along with this layout if you think that it works better.


1092
 

Enah

Mother Nature and Lord in Bandallon
Maester
I like the mini, I dont feel the layout is as large as the mini feels, perhaps a test that is more in line with the mini model. the layout you've given just feels entirely too cramped and i'd be afraid of it feeling too small and not imposing. Also, make sure that the harbour isnt a large one, it doesnt need stone jetty and docks and all the bells and whistles, a simple beach with access to the island's summit/castle will suffice. and give it some ruins, there would be remains of a hamlet and fields, barren doesnt have to mean fully sand and rock, just much harder to grow food there in mass quantities
 

mdmeaux

Builder
I like the mini, I dont feel the layout is as large as the mini feels, perhaps a test that is more in line with the mini model. the layout you've given just feels entirely too cramped and i'd be afraid of it feeling too small and not imposing. Also, make sure that the harbour isnt a large one, it doesnt need stone jetty and docks and all the bells and whistles, a simple beach with access to the island's summit/castle will suffice. and give it some ruins, there would be remains of a hamlet and fields, barren doesnt have to mean fully sand and rock, just much harder to grow food there in mass quantities
I'll work on a larger full-size layout. As for the harbour and the hamlet, as I think I mentioned in the app, the original purpose of the castle (at least my proposed purpose) was as an advance naval base against the Targaerayans during the attempted Targ conquests. This is why I think the harbour should be relatively developed, it would be somewhere to dock, load and prepare the Dornish fleet. Even if it's only 1 stone quay with the rest of the fleet anchored just off the coast, it would give them somewhere to more easily repair a ship etc. As for the hamlet and fields, firstly, I don't think it would fit the purpose of a naval base to have normal houses on the island; the only people living there would be the sailors and other navy men. I suppose there could be a few fields, but if there were I think they would be incorporated into the castle (specifically for feeding the sailors), perhaps they could make up a large part of the big courtyard. Secondly, the canon description of the island isn't just 'barren', it is literally called 'a rock', which I think does mean just sand and rock.
 
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