Approved Project Application: Middlebury by ItsPabs
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The Spring 2023 edition of The Rookery is now out! Take a look to see the latest builds, guides, progress and development updates on the upcoming 1.18.2 switch. You can read it here:
https://indd.adobe.com/view/f943da18-ed77-4d55-845d-fee9bfa14247
ItsPabs
Playwright
Thanks for posting this Cash. With most of the town and surrounding area getting close to being done, I was planning on making an update post soon anyway. It will outline what I have planned for the castle/keep and let everybody in on my more updated plans and ideas for finishing Middlebury. I have a few areas that I was planning on opening up for sub-application as well. Hopefully I'll get around to that within a few weeks here.
ItsPabs
Playwright
Hello everybody. Endymion has offered to be my approving mod for Middlebury since my old approving mods for this project are no longer mods (yes I've been at it for awhile). In turn we've been presented with a lovely opportunity to redo and update Middlebury's main town a bit more, so it can be as nice as possible for when Middlebury is finally done!
One thing Endy mentioned was that the roads were a little sporadic, so taking his advice seriously, I've devised a new plan to update the main roads in the town to make a little more sense. Before they were a bit too random and all over the place, now they connect different parts of the town in a more logical way.
Here's the plans, boss:
Old map/Current road map:
Proposed/Updated road map:
As you can see, the squiggly and highly curvy purple roads have been exchanged with a set of 3 new main connector roads, each of which would connect to another main road of the town. I think the old highlighted purple roads were the main issue, and weren't really realistically planned out. Now they square up the town and offer more space for realistic house plotting (more houses built straight down and adjacent to their assigned road, instead of homes floating a few paces away from the road itself).
After updating the roads (if Endy and another mod approves!), then we can work on updating the housing style in Middlebury. Unfortunately I never went with a defined style-guide and the current style has gotten a bit too random and in-cohesive. Too many houses do too many different things, so we're gonna go around and update every house to make each one fit and look better.
Also, we'll definitely be outright replacing a few homes, especially with the new roads plowing through parts of town. Thank you to the builders who built these old homes, and I will be saving most of what we get rid of on my plot.
So once we get the roads planned, I think I can talk with Endy and we can come up with a more defined style for the houses in town. Then after that we can start updating!
One thing Endy mentioned was that the roads were a little sporadic, so taking his advice seriously, I've devised a new plan to update the main roads in the town to make a little more sense. Before they were a bit too random and all over the place, now they connect different parts of the town in a more logical way.
Here's the plans, boss:
Old map/Current road map:
Proposed/Updated road map:
As you can see, the squiggly and highly curvy purple roads have been exchanged with a set of 3 new main connector roads, each of which would connect to another main road of the town. I think the old highlighted purple roads were the main issue, and weren't really realistically planned out. Now they square up the town and offer more space for realistic house plotting (more houses built straight down and adjacent to their assigned road, instead of homes floating a few paces away from the road itself).
After updating the roads (if Endy and another mod approves!), then we can work on updating the housing style in Middlebury. Unfortunately I never went with a defined style-guide and the current style has gotten a bit too random and in-cohesive. Too many houses do too many different things, so we're gonna go around and update every house to make each one fit and look better.
Also, we'll definitely be outright replacing a few homes, especially with the new roads plowing through parts of town. Thank you to the builders who built these old homes, and I will be saving most of what we get rid of on my plot.
So once we get the roads planned, I think I can talk with Endy and we can come up with a more defined style for the houses in town. Then after that we can start updating!
- Pronouns
- he/him
Looks great! I was wondering, since I'm getting close to the borders of Middlebury, if you had some idea of the extent of the lands around the town? Maybe you could draw me a quick outline of about where you reckon it should be? Bearing in mind there is a lot of empty space to the east and west.
ItsPabs
Playwright
Here you go, Dutch! Here's a quick sketch. The Middlebury borders would probably be similar to the lime green outline I've drawn below. It's possible the borders would extend into the orange and purple zones some, but I'm not sure. I wasn't planning anything on any of the edges really, so we can add in detail/etc after the borders have been drawn too.
Margaery_Tyrell
The Dark Lord Sauron
Can we discuss the actual size of Middlebury's town? It's currently larger than some of the other major towns in The Reach such as Grassy Vale and Bitterbridge and I honestly think should be reduced in size to reflect that BB and GV are major towns in the Reach.
ItsPabs
Playwright
Yeah, it's something I've actually thought about and 'worried' about for awhile. While I think Bitterbridge is a good size, the Grassy Vale town seems a bit small (kinda irrelevant, but I do think GV could be bigger, but it's a nice town as is). However, I don't think any of that's a good reason for the Middlebury town to be so large. So I'm happy to adjust the size of the town, and I think with redoing some of the major roads, we can cut back the scope of the town as well.
I don't have a plan thought up yet, but I'd be happy to reduce the size of the town. Maybe mess with the walls and shape them up a bit more while squeezing them in to make the main portion of the town feel smaller. There are also a lot of town sections that venture outside the borders of the walls. We can probably reduce/remove some of these areas as well. I was looking at the walls last night, and wanted to adjust them, so we could easily reduce the size of the town by moving the walls inward. Essentially removing a few "city blocks" from the town's scope.
Truthfully, I think Middlebury is still a unique situation where it's size is OK in some ways because it's supposed to be a growing rival town to those two towns (BB and GV). At least that was my head canon for awhile. Being situated between those two towns means Middlebury could receive a lot of trade. However, I don't think it should outshine or make those towns feel small in comparison. Which is why I'm happy to reduce the town size a good bit
Still I had some fun ideas with Middlebury being a half-completed full sized town, and I want to keep some of those ideas. I think we can have more homes being currently built in construction, and maybe add more evidence of new walls being constructed. Overall the town has just gotten a little messy, if we clean up the borders and really set a defined shape to the town, I think the concerns about it outshining other towns and it's BULGING size will diminish. Definitely gonna have to reduce a section or two in size though, but that should be fun!
Anyway, I'm excited about the prospect of cleaning up the town. It had gotten a little out of control, and many a times on the DynMap I had compared the vast sprawl of Middlebury's town to similar projects with a growing bead of sweat on my brow, nervously anticipating someone pointing out my envious expansion. So I kinda knew this was coming.
Fun fact I had planned to just kinda finish the town as is and argue all this stuff wasn't a big deal, however, why not do it right? I'm happy to take a chance to make it better.
Anyway, I'll get out a more fleshed out plan for how we can reduce the size of the town/new house/town style/defined roads and all that soon.
- Pronouns
- he/him
ItsPabs
Playwright
Hello folks.
I've decided to wipe the old town in Middlebury and most of the settlement and start anew. It was a fun ride, making that town any way I wanted it. I was *truly* free when I shaped Middlebury, adding and sprinkling in plots here and there, a new facility here and another batch of colorful houses here and there. Well, heh, things did get out of hand didn't they?
Anyway, while the old town was fun and had some good ideas, I want to remake it with a solid plan for the town and surrounding settlements. The old town did get way too big (thanks Marge, you did this), so it makes sense to redo the town and make a finely crafted version of a smaller town, **perfect in every way**. Hopefully encapsulating what the original town wanted to be, without getting out of control.
The old town wasn't very realistic. So with the new town comes the possibility of a much cleaner and well-designed layout for the town. I'm not posting my plans for the town quite yet, as we haven't prepared the land yet. I want to actually wipe the old settlement first so I can get a good look at how the terrain should be laid out, and where a smaller town would make sense (instead of just encompassing the entire hillside). I have a few good ideas already, but as I said I want to get the land cleared before I finalize my plans.
As an example of what I'm planning to do in terms of tightening up the concept for the town: --> ONE colorful street with only painted houses, as opposed to colorful/painted houses scattered throughout the town.
With that out of the way, I'd like to begin. Thank you all. The old town is saved on my plot to be viewed ANY time.
I've decided to wipe the old town in Middlebury and most of the settlement and start anew. It was a fun ride, making that town any way I wanted it. I was *truly* free when I shaped Middlebury, adding and sprinkling in plots here and there, a new facility here and another batch of colorful houses here and there. Well, heh, things did get out of hand didn't they?
Anyway, while the old town was fun and had some good ideas, I want to remake it with a solid plan for the town and surrounding settlements. The old town did get way too big (thanks Marge, you did this), so it makes sense to redo the town and make a finely crafted version of a smaller town, **perfect in every way**. Hopefully encapsulating what the original town wanted to be, without getting out of control.
The old town wasn't very realistic. So with the new town comes the possibility of a much cleaner and well-designed layout for the town. I'm not posting my plans for the town quite yet, as we haven't prepared the land yet. I want to actually wipe the old settlement first so I can get a good look at how the terrain should be laid out, and where a smaller town would make sense (instead of just encompassing the entire hillside). I have a few good ideas already, but as I said I want to get the land cleared before I finalize my plans.
As an example of what I'm planning to do in terms of tightening up the concept for the town: --> ONE colorful street with only painted houses, as opposed to colorful/painted houses scattered throughout the town.
With that out of the way, I'd like to begin. Thank you all. The old town is saved on my plot to be viewed ANY time.
SeapunkPeaches
Cersei's Left Bob
- Pronouns
- she/her
ItsPabs: Are you planning to use any parts of the old town in your new version? E.g., individual houses/buildings or streets. I think you should consider salvaging some of the existing stuff when you replot the area.
ItsPabs
Playwright
Hey Lem, I'm planning to save what I can! However I think the house style in Middlebury is going to shift a little bit, so most of the houses simply won't fit with the new style - is what I'm thinking. There are a few good houses I am thinking about keeping/salvaging. As well as some industry stuff, an example being Mimi's small windmill, which would be better suited moving away from the keep and put on a hill somewhere else on the lands.
- Pronouns
- she/her
When you are able, can you show us what the new style is likely to be? Also which buildings you think you might save.
- Pronouns
- he/him
I'm massively impressed at your willingness to take on recent feedback and cull a large part of your project. I think everyone will be super eager to help you achieve your "perfect" Middlebury (including me!).
ItsPabs
Playwright
Hello everybody. Just wanted to update everyone on what my plans are for the town layout and the house style in new Middlebury.
Here's my current plans for the layout of the town:
As you can see the town has two main roads leading in and out of town, with three gates leading out of town and one gate leading into the Lord's castle.
I really like the location of the town being placed next to the castle on top of the hill/mountain that this settlement lies on. Settled on a relatively level section of ground, the town took over the flat at the top of the hillside that once held a forest or something back in the day. A town forming right next to a keep and encompassing its walls is something that was pretty common in the middle ages (see my insp below). And that's a fun concept I wanted to try with the new Middlebury town.
You can see a lot of room for yards with this setup for the northern row of houses. As well as ample room for some yards all around. I wanted to do a more clustered area, which you can see I already plotted out somewhat. This area has formed behind the more upper class houses that border the main square.
The main square has room for a nice sept in the center of town, as well as ample room for market stalls and shops. The current sept design I have placed into town right now is a nice design Endy made when they originally tested and made a lot of houses style for MB. He had originally made a different layout for the town which I am taking inspiration for this new layout currently. The sept looked better in Endy's original layout, but it also looks good here. Endy this is probably something we might want to discuss, either keeping the current sept design and updating it a little, or going with a new style or ditching the sept being in the middle of the square all together.
Also, I wanted to note that the town square's shape could be changed a bit, and I want to experiment/work with Endy a bit more on it. That also goes for some of the roads in town. The plan above is obviously my general plan and what I'm aiming for, but I want to adjust it and experiment with it some to shape it as nice as possible, particularly the square.
Most people know my fascination with the painted wood block, and as such I want to do a fun painted street where all the houses are painted up with daring medieval colors. With the presence of a dye guild in town and it's large influence over the region, I think it could make sense for a portion of town to be painted once and awhile as a festival thing, or for the rich merchants of town to request it/pay for it. As such, the use of yellow daub in the town's house style also makes sense, since the town would have plenty of resources to be able to make the yellow daub.
Otherwise the town will be rather typical in style, relying heavily on classic white daub while also incorporating brown and the new yellow daub. Some wood houses will also be a common sight. With a mine and quarry nearby, the houses rely on a large amount of stone foundation and often use that as one of their entire first floors.
Here's the house style examples:
Credit goes to Endy for making most of these house tests! <3 I think it's a great style befitting the town.
Part 2: The Lands
Here are my current plans for the Middlebury lands that still need doing:
Firstly, let's talk about Village 1 and 2.
Village 1 is directly outside of the town and is technically a part of it. What is there already is pretty much what I have planned, though some things need to be drastically changed. Mainly the old tithe barns have to be redone and removed mostly. And the houses will have to be updated to match the new town's style and standard. So there will be some changes. But ultimately about 10 houses, mostly farmers or various professions the town needs nearby. @Endy if you have any particularly good ideas about this spot let me know, and I'd be happy if we kind of updated this spot before starting on the town.
Village 2, down by the river and with some old buildings already there, will also have to be updated. I want it to be mostly smaller houses, farmers and fishermen. There can be a few shops on the main road just by the bridge over the river, reminiscent of the old town that used to be there. So maybe 10-15 houses in the entire area.
The other areas are pretty self-explanatory. We will have fields directly outside of town where the old town once was. (along with some water features I am still working out). East of town we have a mine and quarry. The buildings and plots outside of the current mine area will need updating. The lumber camp outside the corner of town down the hill. And a spruce forest similar to something in Rousemont to mark the barrier between Middlebury land and the Grassy Vale.
Since all this stuff will probably be finished after the town, I wanted to start with the town and can update/post more info on the lands when we get there.
Part 3: Inspiration
I looked into medieval French towns and towns from around that area in Germany and the such.
The main inspirations for the town were Dinan, Uzes and Carcassone. Carcassone particularly has a very nice castle and town combo in it that was a big inspiration. Uzes has some nice packed streets and an interesting layout. Dinan was a nice town near the river that was also located in the hills. All 3 of these towns are on hills too.
Included a few medieval town map layouts which helped me finalize the town's streets.
The castle in Carcassone will probably be an inspiration for the Middlebury castle, however my MAIN inspiration will be the Castle of Uzès. Also known as the Duchy d uzes, or the Dutchy/ or the Ducal Palace. I thought it was a very cool design and kind of fit the lordship of Middlebury, who maybe was originally a family from another area in Westeros but eventually settled in the Reach. Similar to the Dutch lord settling in France with the case of the Dutchy. Anyway, I thought the castle was really cool. But I want to complete the town before moving to the castle, so I'll post more about it later.
I also included some inspiration for the streams and rivers nearby (as well as some chasm stuff to maybe justify the 1 chasm river I have outside the town). Seems like it was a possible formation around the alps in France. I also found the Ausable Chasm, which is in New York. Yeah not exactly France, but maybe it's feasible something like this could have formed in the Reach.
Anyway, that's about it. I hope you enjoyed reading, and I look forward to working on all of this soon, with approval!
Here's my current plans for the layout of the town:
As you can see the town has two main roads leading in and out of town, with three gates leading out of town and one gate leading into the Lord's castle.
I really like the location of the town being placed next to the castle on top of the hill/mountain that this settlement lies on. Settled on a relatively level section of ground, the town took over the flat at the top of the hillside that once held a forest or something back in the day. A town forming right next to a keep and encompassing its walls is something that was pretty common in the middle ages (see my insp below). And that's a fun concept I wanted to try with the new Middlebury town.
You can see a lot of room for yards with this setup for the northern row of houses. As well as ample room for some yards all around. I wanted to do a more clustered area, which you can see I already plotted out somewhat. This area has formed behind the more upper class houses that border the main square.
The main square has room for a nice sept in the center of town, as well as ample room for market stalls and shops. The current sept design I have placed into town right now is a nice design Endy made when they originally tested and made a lot of houses style for MB. He had originally made a different layout for the town which I am taking inspiration for this new layout currently. The sept looked better in Endy's original layout, but it also looks good here. Endy this is probably something we might want to discuss, either keeping the current sept design and updating it a little, or going with a new style or ditching the sept being in the middle of the square all together.
Also, I wanted to note that the town square's shape could be changed a bit, and I want to experiment/work with Endy a bit more on it. That also goes for some of the roads in town. The plan above is obviously my general plan and what I'm aiming for, but I want to adjust it and experiment with it some to shape it as nice as possible, particularly the square.
Most people know my fascination with the painted wood block, and as such I want to do a fun painted street where all the houses are painted up with daring medieval colors. With the presence of a dye guild in town and it's large influence over the region, I think it could make sense for a portion of town to be painted once and awhile as a festival thing, or for the rich merchants of town to request it/pay for it. As such, the use of yellow daub in the town's house style also makes sense, since the town would have plenty of resources to be able to make the yellow daub.
Otherwise the town will be rather typical in style, relying heavily on classic white daub while also incorporating brown and the new yellow daub. Some wood houses will also be a common sight. With a mine and quarry nearby, the houses rely on a large amount of stone foundation and often use that as one of their entire first floors.
Here's the house style examples:
Credit goes to Endy for making most of these house tests! <3 I think it's a great style befitting the town.
Part 2: The Lands
Here are my current plans for the Middlebury lands that still need doing:
Firstly, let's talk about Village 1 and 2.
Village 1 is directly outside of the town and is technically a part of it. What is there already is pretty much what I have planned, though some things need to be drastically changed. Mainly the old tithe barns have to be redone and removed mostly. And the houses will have to be updated to match the new town's style and standard. So there will be some changes. But ultimately about 10 houses, mostly farmers or various professions the town needs nearby. @Endy if you have any particularly good ideas about this spot let me know, and I'd be happy if we kind of updated this spot before starting on the town.
Village 2, down by the river and with some old buildings already there, will also have to be updated. I want it to be mostly smaller houses, farmers and fishermen. There can be a few shops on the main road just by the bridge over the river, reminiscent of the old town that used to be there. So maybe 10-15 houses in the entire area.
The other areas are pretty self-explanatory. We will have fields directly outside of town where the old town once was. (along with some water features I am still working out). East of town we have a mine and quarry. The buildings and plots outside of the current mine area will need updating. The lumber camp outside the corner of town down the hill. And a spruce forest similar to something in Rousemont to mark the barrier between Middlebury land and the Grassy Vale.
Since all this stuff will probably be finished after the town, I wanted to start with the town and can update/post more info on the lands when we get there.
Part 3: Inspiration
I looked into medieval French towns and towns from around that area in Germany and the such.
The main inspirations for the town were Dinan, Uzes and Carcassone. Carcassone particularly has a very nice castle and town combo in it that was a big inspiration. Uzes has some nice packed streets and an interesting layout. Dinan was a nice town near the river that was also located in the hills. All 3 of these towns are on hills too.
Included a few medieval town map layouts which helped me finalize the town's streets.
The castle in Carcassone will probably be an inspiration for the Middlebury castle, however my MAIN inspiration will be the Castle of Uzès. Also known as the Duchy d uzes, or the Dutchy/ or the Ducal Palace. I thought it was a very cool design and kind of fit the lordship of Middlebury, who maybe was originally a family from another area in Westeros but eventually settled in the Reach. Similar to the Dutch lord settling in France with the case of the Dutchy. Anyway, I thought the castle was really cool. But I want to complete the town before moving to the castle, so I'll post more about it later.
I also included some inspiration for the streams and rivers nearby (as well as some chasm stuff to maybe justify the 1 chasm river I have outside the town). Seems like it was a possible formation around the alps in France. I also found the Ausable Chasm, which is in New York. Yeah not exactly France, but maybe it's feasible something like this could have formed in the Reach.
Anyway, that's about it. I hope you enjoyed reading, and I look forward to working on all of this soon, with approval!
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- Pronouns
- she/her
I like your plans, Pabs! My only feedback is that the plotting you have so far uses a lot of diagonals. Out of all of the plots within the town walls, only two of them aren't diagonal. The road leaving the town to the left is oddly curvy to accommodate the diagonal houses, and in general I think they should be toned down a bit.
Nice plans! It's good to see this project moving! The changes are really improving the whole project.
Just my 2 cents, but you don't have to comply as I'm not one of your approving mods:
- Is there anything to sustain the existence of this dyers guild?
- Also, to avoid repeating the same issue with the very high density of population in that area, I'd recommend you to make the 2 villages very spread out and not too big (especially the 1st one, as it's right outside the town). Tbh, I'm not sure there's really a need for a village so close to the town. For the town itself, as it's a rather small town, about 40-50 houses it seems, I'd go easy on the high class merchants, to keep it to 2-3 max.
Just my 2 cents, but you don't have to comply as I'm not one of your approving mods:
- Is there anything to sustain the existence of this dyers guild?
- Also, to avoid repeating the same issue with the very high density of population in that area, I'd recommend you to make the 2 villages very spread out and not too big (especially the 1st one, as it's right outside the town). Tbh, I'm not sure there's really a need for a village so close to the town. For the town itself, as it's a rather small town, about 40-50 houses it seems, I'd go easy on the high class merchants, to keep it to 2-3 max.
ItsPabs
Playwright
Thanks for pointing that out Lem. It's a good suggestion and definitely something I need to watch out for. The road leaving the town to the left I decided to make intentionally curvy around the one segment, as I wanted the sight line coming in from that gate to be obscured before you reach the main square. If everybody's okay with the current area I plotted having more curved plots, I do think the main road that leads up and down the town will have plenty of opportunity for some nice parallels and flat/rectangular shaped plots. This is one reason I might have to adjust the main square, as most of the plots would have to be diagonal on it currently. So thanks, it's something I'll watch/adjust.
- The dye guild idea has kind of been around since I started the project. But I did initially research the idea (and have that somewhere), and it seems like Middlebury's location in the world is a fine spot geographically where a lot of different dye crops would be able to flourish. I mostly chose the idea because it seemed like it was underrepresented in the server at the time, however I think the combination of the project being located in the Reach will its rich soil and the nearby aspect of being closer to the Stormlands (maybe more rain), makes it a fertile spot for dye crops.
The flat lands at the base of the river and in the valley of the hills surrounding MB seemed like a good place for a lot of dye fields, and I currently already have some good fields that I intend to keep from working on the project previously. I think these fields being mostly dye crops helps shows the prosperity of the local guild and helps show that dye crops are one of MB's main export. Also MB's location in Westeros, with access to the Reach, the Stormlands and King's Landing and the Crownlands being nearby makes it prime location for trade amongst these regions. If MB had the only dye production in the area (or it was something the local lords invested in early in MB's history), it would make sense that you could expand that commerce and have it grow to a major size in this area.
The river nearby is an easy source of water for making the dyes during the tub dying process. And the main dye guild/facility is located down on the river south of town. I didn't include that in my outline because it's the one area that will need minimal touching up (though admittedly I should have outlined my plans for it).
- As for the village stuff, sounds good! And yeah about 40-50 houses for the town, whatever fits around the roads essentially. I do want the two villages to be very small. Village 1 may be need to reduced from like 10 houses to 4-5 ish and a barn or two. I think the idea of it being a seperate village is not a good idea as you've pointed out. I just want that side of town to have a natural extension of low class homes coming out of town and leading into the nearby fields. So we can adjust that and get it right
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Okay, sorry I must admit I wasn't aware about the dye guild, thought it was a new idea! If you plan to include all the industry behind it, then I'm sure it can work well!