More to Beyond the Wall.

otty

Prophet
Although this thread looks a little bit abandoned, it looks like the best place to ask this:
What are the current plans for doing the land beyond the wall?I haven't seen any thread talking about the wilding clans without canon project but this one. Or is the process still not defined and open for contributions?
Not Abandoned. There has been alot of discussion between me and Aeskio about the future of BTW just nothing set in stone, particularly because life, work and school have been prioritized
 

Joseidon1

Poet
Is there a place where your brainstorming has been written down/were one can participate in it? I was thinking/testing for something on the West coast of the land beyond the wall, but I wanted to inform me a little bit more before wasting to much time on something that wouldn't be possible in this form. I can post some ideas here if this is the right place for the discussion.
 

otty

Prophet
Is there a place where your brainstorming has been written down/were one can participate in it? I was thinking/testing for something on the West coast of the land beyond the wall, but I wanted to inform me a little bit more before wasting to much time on something that wouldn't be possible in this form. I can post some ideas here if this is the right place for the discussion.

Not particularly no, it's kinda a scattered file of things on my computer atm.

The main purpose of this post was simply to outline the overall appearance and standard of BtW so that there isn't inconsistent scenery and structures in other locations. Most of those elements have been decided just not reformed into a presentable document with coherent arguments and suggestions as to my decisions all of which have been discussed with Aeskio.

If you haven't had a lot of experience with snow, I would encourage you to spend plenty of time beforehand learning to deal with the glitter bomb of a block.

I'll lend to you a few things I have now:

Schematic brushes:
BtWForest
BtWDetail (Only good for flat spots which aren't great with snow)
The trees used in this can be found in treetest using the new snowy leaf blocks. Please refrain from using trees outside of these pre-selected ones if you wish to keep your project aligned to the current ones stylistically.

Trees on the forest edges should always be placed individually and from the ground view, not the top.

Canon Doc:

Maps:
Screen Shot 2021-02-17 at 3.06.15 PM.png

Screen Shot 2021-02-17 at 3.08.08 PM.png
**Are clans with no Canon
South and North Forest Clans are just ways to break up the size of the project and the otherwise weird shape of them.
The Ice River and Thenn will be the largest of projects only because of the size of the clans.

The Lands of Always Winter East and West are mainly frozen wasteland with some signs of walkers. If someone wants to do a bunch of mini's/immersion projects in these then that's why I broke 'em up.

Some of the elements to the new terraform are not canon like a new ice river since we already have the milk water and the antlers and it's been implied by the books that the Ice River Clans are West despite there being no river in maps.

Since you're interested in the West Coast. You get the choice of terraforming a lot of shorelines or inserting a new Ice river and expand on some mountain ranges. They're problem the most terraforming hefty projects out there outside of Thenn. Please know what you're undertaking and that you enjoy terraforming with snow before undertaking these projects. I personally really enjoy it, but I know if definitely not many builder's cup of tea.


Some basic tips:

Smooth snow: Select area, //mask [your chosen terraforming wool block], //smooth 1 -s

Snow on mountainsides: //br sphere 78:7 20 //mask [your chosen terraforming wool block]&/[0d][45d]

Mountains should have pebbles to help the transition from snow to northern terrain set to prevent stark contrasts. Such can be seen around mances camp.

Paint the mountains like you are bob ross

Use the /br height brush. Is ur bestfren for building mountains and hills.

Steep groves from more snow and waterfall should carve the mountainsides. Snow should flow up/down these groves.

No oak. Only jungle, northern, and spruce. Anything else sticks out.

Thats all I can think of for now.

Best.
 
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AerioOndos

Donkey Lord
If your are thinking of doing something on the Western Coast, do you mean Ice River Clans or Men of the Frozen Shore?

Both are potentially GRRM's interpretation of Artic indigenous peoples mixed together.
For the Men of the Frozen Shore, they sound like they are a broad grouping of Siberian and Saami reindeer herders and walrus hunting Inuit with dog sleds made of walrus tusks and bone. These two known factions are antagonistic.

So really we have three possible groups. Walrus hunters, reindeer herders or Ice River Clans
 

Joseidon1

Poet
My ideas are for the Men of the frozen shore. I've been looking at some Greenland stuff and found some intersting aspects that might be useful for the Frozen shore. I have tested a little bit with tents/houses based on the "Qarmaq", a semi permanent home. It consists of a wood/bone construct placed upon a dug out hole in the ground. Skins, moss and snow were placed upon the bone construct. The test pictures also includes a test for some tents. 2021-02-18_09.10.07.png2021-02-18_09.15.45.png
I am not sure that style is not too far North for the area, as there are territorries like Thenn much further North. This housing style would require hunting for big sea mamals like whales or maybe walrus.

I also found this quote in a world of ice and fire:
We know of the wild people of the Frozen Shore who live in huts of ice and ride sleds pulled by hounds. There are half a dozen tribes who make their homes in caverns, and rumors tell of cannibals in the upper reaches of the icy rivers beyond the Wall.
This sounds like there are at least some people living in igloos at the Frozen shore. Those men could possibly live at the strip of coast you gave the ice river clans or even a little bit further North. But I am not sure what the exact differences between a clan, a tribe and a community living together in a village are.

On the topic of my snow experience, I am currently doing a mini in Johan's gift immersion project which includes a little bit of terra.
 
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AerioOndos

Donkey Lord
hey hey. Good work with using the flowstone to represent bone, however, I'd suggest making the structure overall more smooth. Use more stairs than full blocks.

Also, while Thenn is further north, it also is described as being significantly more developed, so perhaps they live in settlements more similar to the Giant's Tombs of Sardinia (lots and lots of conjoined roundhouses) or in settlements of a few large buildings holding multiple families.

I'm definitely a fan of Igloos for the Walrus Men of the frozen shore. Perhaps if we tried some Saami tents and thatch/turf dwellings for the Reindeer MotFS?

Otty, how does that sound? Igloos and Qarmaq for the Walrus men and then Saami Goahti (Turf and wood tents) and lavvu (more rounded teepee tents) for the Reindeer herders
 
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JohanKR850

Royal Messenger
Sami style is cool but the Sami people have/had woods and trees, which inuits on Greenland does not. The Sami style includes a wooden frame i am pretty sure. So we would need to decide wether or not there would be trees along and inland from the frozen shore. In which case it would be odd for the Whaler/fisher people to use bones for structural support, when they could just chop down a tree nice and easy. I have always imagined the shore as pretty barren. But i guess we need to decide were there is trees west of the Frostfangs (if there should even be any in large quantities at all), cause it would be two very diffrent terms of survival for the people living there.
 

AerioOndos

Donkey Lord
I'd say that inland there would or should be trees, even if its sparse copses of said trees.
I too have always thought of the Frozen Shore as tree less. I'm thinking that the wood is potentially up the Ice Rivers and thats a source of conflict between the Ice River Clans and the Walrus MotFS. The herders are likely more nomadic and I could easily imagine them travelling to get wood if needed, especially as it is the Walrus men (who would have to live along the coast) who are mentioned as using bone
 

Joseidon1

Poet
The eastern part of the Frozen shore includes the Frostfang foothills, which could contain a few small forrests like on the current version of the map. The reeindeer herders could also use those as wood source. Speaking of the Ice River forrests, if they are along the river itself, I think we should give the Frozen shore the coast line of the Ice River people to bring them closer to the forrests.
It is said that some of the MotFS belief in Gods of Snow and Ice. Should that be the Walrus people and maybe also the Ice river people with a crueler interpretation of the gods?
 

AerioOndos

Donkey Lord
The part of coastline that the Ice River Clans have isn't notable and is likely not settled. Its noted that the MotFS fish the Bay of Ice, which is the bay that Bear Island is in and is to the south. There is no mention of them being involved with the Northernmost known part of the Sunset Sea.
If it were on the Eastern Coast, there would likely be settlements (The Shivering Sea off the eastern coast of Westeros is the richest fishing ground in the known world) but it isn't, and we don't know of anyone that way. IIrc the Ironborn only raid wildlings along the Bay of Ice, not any further north.

I don't see how changing Otty's maps actually gets the MotFS any closer to wood sources. They already have the lands on the northern side of the Gorge (which would likely have some forest as its Frost Fang foothills, as well as a joining section between there and the icerivers that includes the foothills.

In regards to gods, If you can come up with a representation/possible way of representing gods of snow and ice, then it becomes relevant (e.g. sea altars with dishes of meat/crab meat for the crab worshippers of Storrolds point.)
 

otty

Prophet
My ideas are for the Men of the frozen shore. I've been looking at some Greenland stuff and found some intersting aspects that might be useful for the Frozen shore. I have tested a little bit with tents/houses based on the "Qarmaq", a semi permanent home. It consists of a wood/bone construct placed upon a dug out hole in the ground. Skins, moss and snow were placed upon the bone construct. The test pictures also includes a test for some tents. View attachment 7246View attachment 7247
I am not sure that style is not too far North for the area, as there are territorries like Thenn much further North. This housing style would require hunting for big sea mamals like whales or maybe walrus.

I also found this quote in a world of ice and fire:

This sounds like there are at least some people living in igloos at the Frozen shore. Those men could possibly live at the strip of coast you gave the ice river clans or even a little bit further North. But I am not sure what the exact differences between a clan, a tribe and a community living together in a village are.

On the topic of my snow experience, I am currently doing a mini in Johan's gift immersion project which includes a little bit of terra.


Perferabbly the
My ideas are for the Men of the frozen shore. I've been looking at some Greenland stuff and found some intersting aspects that might be useful for the Frozen shore. I have tested a little bit with tents/houses based on the "Qarmaq", a semi permanent home. It consists of a wood/bone construct placed upon a dug out hole in the ground. Skins, moss and snow were placed upon the bone construct. The test pictures also includes a test for some tents. View attachment 7246View attachment 7247
I am not sure that style is not too far North for the area, as there are territorries like Thenn much further North. This housing style would require hunting for big sea mamals like whales or maybe walrus.

I also found this quote in a world of ice and fire:

This sounds like there are at least some people living in igloos at the Frozen shore. Those men could possibly live at the strip of coast you gave the ice river clans or even a little bit further North. But I am not sure what the exact differences between a clan, a tribe and a community living together in a village are.

On the topic of my snow experience, I am currently doing a mini in Johan's gift immersion project which includes a little bit of terra.

Housing styles are not restricted nor were suggested they should, that's left open for builders. So having Walrus boned structures is highly supported and was going to be a suggestion of mine once I created some form of a document. Just be sure to transition out of the bone style structures (hence why every project has a ton of land to allow these transitions particularly for those who take up next to a completed project )

Also mapped on the first map is a suggested expansion of the Frostfangs a bit east into more areas for the men of the frozen shore to supply those caverns.

I agree with Aeksio and suggest you smooth out the tents more, they are a little blocky currently. In general, I think using the stalactites is very smart but maybe using them sparingly on the tents the texture is a bit too cluttery? So for the bone tents using them sparingly might help balance that out? Or maybe a pile-of-bones tent style that has a nice woolen interior to show the protective tarp might be cool too! Though I have no idea how any of these look. Gotta love organic styles in a game that is very much not organic :D.
 

Thamus_Knoward

Shadowbinder
Ranger
hey hey. Good work with using the flowstone to represent bone, however, I'd suggest making the structure overall more smooth. Use more stairs than full blocks.

Could we please refrain from using all terrain blocks in man-made structures? If this region is to be redone in large parts, I'd encourage you to write a list of items that are lacking in the current RP. Once you have a conclusive list of items worked out among yourselves make requests for each item or a bulk request with a grand plan.

Essentially, we could probably get you much nicer material to work with if you asked for it. We can make bones that are 100x more authentic bone-like than the flowstone block. That would wholly avoid all issues that arise if we ever decide to retexture the flowstone block. For instance, I've long since planned to add a top texture to it that is smooth. And I've been also meaning to add a small animation of drops of water trickling down on random blocks. Little things like that get hard for me to do if I can't be sure that a block is used like it's meant to.

I gotta admit I've refrained from building anything beyond the wall so far because the regular blocks (stairs, slabs, full blocks) are super clunky for tents and unfortunately the trend of building diagonals has contributed to them looking like amorphous blobs to me most of the time. If you have some suggestions as to how to improve that with innovative blocks I'm all ears. Bear in mind that we could try going beyond the scale of regular blocks if you wanted to.

I don't spend too much time exploring options of improvements here by myself since I'm simply not so involved in this. You guys are passionate about it so I'd need you to reach out with a vision!

For our kind of medium, a visual transfer of information works best. If you have a grand concept you could provide concept art using models and screenshots or even rudimentary concept art. It doesn't need to look like this one but it would help me to see which repeating elements need to be translated to blocks:
roman-kurbanov-pathfinder-kingmaker-barbarian-camp-outdoor-concept-art.jpg
 
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AerioOndos

Donkey Lord
Oh yeah so I’ll put this here so we can add a list of BTW blocks together. I can’t remember everything.

Bronze tools and weapons (clearly identifies as BTW/Thenn
Bone fence
Bone wall/fence gate (for sleds)
Snow topped Mance’s tent blocks
Frost (like duckweed). Can be used to make any surface look icy. Icy mud, icy stone, black ice on water etc (taiga with frost block on top, prefereably this had CTM so when in groups it looks like very thin ice.
Frosty grass (So that replacing >78 2296:0 doesn’t result in horizontal stripes where the snow is 78:4+ of no leaves poking through.
Frosty/frozen reeds. No, savanna grass doesn’t quite cut it.
Extreme weather herbs/berries that work well in cold conditions (idk if Sea Buckthorn is a good idea in Westeros), (extra thorny blackberries/brambles), (frosted heather)
More fish variety. We know of half a dozen types of fish in the Shivering sea, if we could have some more variety that would look awesome but not too important.
Horn blocks, either tools or weapons or signalling horns.
A dead leaf block so we can have more sticky obstacles in the undergrowth of the haunted forest and surrounds and also for the oak trees that are meant to be there too.
Maybe some black wood variations? Burnt out villages where they’ve tried to set fire to a wight would look awesome.
Some weirwood stair and slab blocks for giving details to the giant faces of some Weirwoods north of the wall (the human swallowing tree of Whitetree, the smaller one north where Sam kills the white walker.)
Some arrowheads and chunks of amber and other randoms for a coin replacement in a specific BTW biome (Megataiga is unused iirc and we could just add biome variants to some blocks and paint that around settlements/POIs
 
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Joseidon1

Poet
Maybe some black wood variations?
If the current black wood gets the stair, wall and slab blocks, shipbuilding good profit from that as well. Especially since the Ibbenese Whalers and IIRC the eastwatch ships should be black.
I'd like to add whale bone blocks in all shapes (or at least as full block, slab and stair). Needed for chariots and tents
I am also not sure about gras/dirt as sod block.
Mances tent blocks on which snow can be placed
Walrus tusks maybe?

There might be some igloo block requests coming later, but I need to test for those
 
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AerioOndos

Donkey Lord
An ice brick block for igloos? sounds good.
I'm not so sure about a whale bone full block. do we need bone that big/thick? Also, I don't remember there being anything about the Wildlings hunting whales. Am I missing info?
Have you seen grass/sod/turf rooves and walls with Better Grass turned on? theyre pretty good. Only other option we have so far is to use Muddy Snow which doesn't blend that well at all with the dark of the dirt.
I tried having snow and muddy snow at Norrey, rather than grass with snow on top. Anyway, I feel like the snow on mances tents can be solved by WE and having a snowy topped Mances block.
For instance, in Norrey I would replace the air above a stair ceiling with whichever height of snow layers I needed. There's a whole snow roof built like this and the whole thing breaks if you hit it.
 
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otty

Prophet
Screen Shot 2021-02-17 at 3.06.15 PM.pngScreen Shot 2021-02-17 at 3.08.08 PM.png
Helloooo!

Here are the maps. Aeskios and I have discussed these throughout the year and now it's time to toss them into the public.

All of these are large projects with spread-out small sub-clans. There won't be too much work in the civilization regard aside from Storrolds. However, there is a large responsibility to terraform the landscape so, preferably a good chunk of the application for these is based on the terraforming. I would like to present a style pallet for terraforming/general palette later for Beyond the wall but, that's kinda-sorta not ready.

On the map, the ** indicates a non-canon clan region, meaning anyone interested is free to create their own lore.
(** includes the Clans or the North or South Forest, and The Antler and the SpearWives)

The Spearwives was a fun idea from Ammika that's not canon. No, Spearwives are not a clan but, they are based on the name of free folk's women warriors. This small clan is just a clan of them, all-female and no men.

Each project lead should terraform approximately 50 blocks outside their range ( or less given circumstances) as a buffer zone to ensure that everything is fully edited.

The top map is a new terraforming map, this is a map proposing amendments to the current BtW layout.

A few things to note on both of these maps
  • An ice river for the ice river clans. There is mixed information on the location of the ice river other than that we know they're west of the Frostfangs yet border the Thenns which are the known furthermost northern clan. However, this would make the Ice river clans very far north and/or enlarge the lands of both the Frozen Shore and the Ice River. I decided that in theory, the Ice river clans lands would go further north in but for the sake of the project size, shrink their domain to the current one on the map since they'd be adding a new river.
  • The Lands of Always Winter would be almost entirely a terraforming project. The amount of terraforming would be up to the builder/editor who takes it. A few signs of walkers would be useful or the ice castle seen in the show as a fun easter egg. The east side is just to break it up so one terraformer doesn't feel overwhelmed more than they already might.
  • On some maps. Thenn's location is placed where our current Thenn (for us) is, however, I wanted to expand the valley more to encompass more space. Some may disagree with this choice, I understand but I simply think such a small valley really undermines their size/population. So I hope it is noticeable that some mountains were included a bit south of some of the lakes.
  • There is a reroute of the Milkwaters to be more up-to-date in terms of waviness
  • I expanded some of the mountains west to help them transition more naturally to a flatter landscape.
  • In general, more lakes would be added according to canon but, I want builders to add those at their own discretion.
  • The Fist should be in the foothills but also across the Milkwater/Frostfangs. Foothills/hilly terrain should be present in that region
  • New route for Skirlings pass
  • Indication of more river branches
  • "Buffer Zone" refers to a where leads should continue to terraform and fix up but avoid including any civilization.
  • Smalls reorganization of the mountains
Here is the canon document I have please refer to this for canon. If any canon is missing please post below using the book #

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1m71rqdg9kVeMAUYwFxqnTBt9GFMw2_JC6KSqNKNf9sU/edit#gid=0

I'm happy to make any changes to this before approval but this should have consent from mods before becoming the new project breakdown of BtW.

Hope this works out thanks!
 
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