Withdrawn House Massey of Stonedance by Kobe & Lucia

[HardzzGaming]

Hi everyone, after a few years of gathering dust we've decided to revisit our application for Stonedance:
Version 1: Click here

Version 2: Click here
- Improved the tests
- Expanded the lands to the west
- The abandoned holdfast is now in the process of being fortified once again
- The ditch now has a stream running through it instead of spikes
- The jeweler is now a farrier/loriner complex with jewelry being a hobby/side job

 

[_Simbaa]

Castle Tests:
1, your wall crenelations seem to be very busy with all the complicated shapes and blocks, futhermore having the large stone brick "frame" highlights the issue even more, right now they look bit outdated, try making them bit smoother
2, bastion were developed as a response to gunpowder artillery, we do not have any gunpowder in westeros
3, personally I would love to see a tower or a keep test to get a better idea of what the castle will look like
4, is the moat infront of the wall test part of it? if so it seems very shallow and narrow, you should make it deeper and wider and perhaps drop the attempt at having stakes in it, especially if its as small as it is, furthermore I am sure you could do bit better with it along the lines of the shape, perhaps look at more recent moats/dry moats on the server (WH for example...)

House Tests:
1, there is a lot of outdated stuff that we no longer use:

- wall and fence supports - make them fence only or get rid of them
- daub framed by stone
- the roof on the lower middle class seems to have alot of strange angles
- fence windows arent very common anymore and some builders dislike them (get someones else opinion on this)​

2, I think personally that the shape of the upper class house is what makes it look wrong (the one with daub overhang) aswell as the choice of gradient, the small brick frames make both of them look very blocky, along with the strange roof, perhaps getting rid of the overhang.
3, the middle class house to me seems bit stunt

Lands:
1, how big is the town going to be? how many houses?
2, would there be enough customers for the jeweler to make living? wouldnt it be better to export the gems unrefined?
3, the field cover barely any area
4, same goes for the forest
5, the piers are at a location that doesnt seem to offer enough protection from the ocean
6, are you planning to do heavy terraforming in the area? because given the state of the terrain, Masseys Hook could definitely use some terraforming love such as we can see in fins/emot projects in the Vale, around White Harbour, in Felwood and so on...

Additional feedback:
1, I would recommend you to take a closer look at the newer projects in crownlands ( Mallery, Chyttering etc...) to use them as your inspiration
2, Given your longer period during which you weren't active a builder I would personally recommend you to take on a smaller project in a place with more of a established style such as Reach, Northern Crownlands. As right now it seems that your building style has fallen behind a by a few years. However if you still decide to go for Stonedance Id recommend you to do some drastic changes to the project applications right now.
3, Lastly, I hope you find this information useful, and I hope you will do well with whatever decision youll decide to make.

Good Luck!
Simbaa

​

 

[HardzzGaming]

Thanks for the feedback, here is version 2: Click here
- Improved the tests
- Expanded the lands to the west
- The abandoned holdfast is now in the process of being fortified once again
- The ditch now has a stream running through it instead of spikes
- The jeweler is now a farrier/loriner complex with jewelry being a hobby/side job

PS. I meant bastion as in a wall tower that's on the same level as the wall itself (these were around before cannons) It's the later adaptation of triangular wedged bastions that developed for cannons.

 

[qBBQ]

I'm looking at your map and see 2 lighthouses which are in close proximity to one another. Is there a reason for this?

 

[HardzzGaming]

The northern one is an actual lighthouse, the one on the south side is more like a ground level fire that's only seen from closer up. The meaning behind it is that between the 2 fires is the entrance to the harbour.

 

[_Simbaa]

I would still like to know how much do you plan to terraform the area, as the right now its looking rather bare and straight out of world painter, I would like to stress out the point that a rather rocky and hilly area would require someone who is proficient with terraforming to make it look good, the fact that its a peninsula with does not make it an easier as it would require to have a good transition between beaches, cliffs and mountains.

Furthermore your Tests still look outdated, the tower for example: its roof looks blocky, with thick layers of slate overhang and very little detail, personally I even think that the arrowslits/windows on it could have been placed better. Furthermore a diverted stream into a ditch would:
1, not fill up the moat, that would require a some sort of a dam to hold the water in it
2, erode the terrain, which could lead to it undermining the foundations of the walls given its close proximity to them

You also might want to rethink your gradient on some of your houses, the small stone bricks do not fit into the light grey stone/cobblestone gradient, It might also be wise to cut the overhanging thatch roof on most of the houses, it could make them look bit better and more in the line with the rest of our houses. The middle 2 and high house still looks weird and 2014ish (they remind me bit of some of the Old Oak houses)
Id also recommend replacing the stone/stair supports on the walls with wall blocks, and making them 2 block think, it might make it look smoother and less chunky.

Being a jeweler as a side job makes little to no sense. It would take years to master such craft and would only appear in large enough town where there would be demand for it. I doubt that in sh*thole such as Masseys Hook we could find customer base big enough to support a jeweler.

 

[DylanLovesYouJP]

As something to add to Simbaa’s critiques the roof shapes of your low middle and high class houses are something I would alter. At the moment the incline isn’t consistent (stair, block, stair, block, stair, stair), I’d recommend sticking with a 45 degree angle (stair, stair, stair, etc.) or a 60 degree angle (stair, block, stair, block, stair, block, etc).

Also, and this is somewhat nitpicky, the overhang, should you choose to stick with that feature, of your low class house 2 (the one on right) feels a little heavy-handed. The supporting stairs of the overhang ought to be facing in the same direction, the mixed directions make the façade look a little messy.

Of course, these are just my opinions, but I hope you find them helpful!

 

[HardzzGaming]

I added some terraforming info to the document, I also plan to improve the mountains with some terraforming.

I've added a second version of the wall tower test with a thinner base of the slate roof. The arrowslits are placed so the tower has all directions covered. At the bottom they cover close range. the walls to the sides as well as ahead of the tower. The upper level is for longer range straight ahead.

The ditch will be a few blocks farther from the wall and won't be a moat, it will merge into the steeper hillside south of the gatehouse and the stream would flow through down the cliffs to the sea. I agree that erosion might be a problem so I had a stream diversion in mind that in peacetime the stream will flow through the fields. but in time of war it can be easily diverted to the ditch to create a wet and muddy bottom.

I've changed the stone middle house so the stone bricks are restricted to the bottom of the wall.

Thatched roofs without an overhang are unrealistic, the point of them is to divert water from the walls, minimizing erosion on the walls and foundations of the houses.

I don't see anything weird with the high/middle houses, I agree that the middle daub house looks a bit generic but I don't think that's a problem.

I tried replacing the stair blocks on the wall with wall blocks but I don't like how it looks.

The jeweler hobby bit is just a backstory I created it wouldn't really show up in the build itself as I had changed it to a farrier/loriner complex.

Regarding the steeper/less steep roof inclinations, I put them in there to create some variation as we only use thatch as a roofing material for the houses. I'm afraid it might look a bit bland if I go exclusively for one or the other.

I didn't notice the direction of the stair blocks. As you suggested they were meant to be in the same direction as the other one.

 

[DylanLovesYouJP]

This is just a suggestion, but perhaps trying to use both the 45 and 60 degree roof shapes in conjunction to another roofing material, maybe dark northern wood or oak, might help to solve the blandness issue.

 

[HardzzGaming]

I've added some more terraforming info regarding the vegetation and updated the map to include the unclaimed area.

 

[_Simbaa]

Just my input about your plan terra:
the vegetation is a secondary "problem" to the state of the entire hook - the beaches, the shape of the mountains, the cliffs, the entire coast line... I would recommend redoing most of the moutains and the coastline prettymuch from scratch, look at Fins Redfort and compare it to some of the "natural" vale terrain and youll notice the drastic improvement in the general shape of the terrain - the amount of detail in the fact that some places would erode more than others, the streams, the realistic shape of the moutains, especially if you look at Hardyng terra for example as it is not covered as much by forests. Same goes for Kors and Emots WH lands or Felwood...

 

[HardzzGaming]

After comparing them and the hook I now see it does need some work I'll keep my settlements in the same place but I'll do an overhaul of the terrain

 

[HardzzGaming]

This message is to boost the thread so it can get some attention again...

 

[Enah]

Hello, sorry that this got lost! So, regarding the roof of the houses, I agree with simbaa, they look too heavy and shouldn't have a side overhang on the gables. There's plenty of older style cottages and houses that have nearly flush thatch roofing to the walls, whereas there's really thick, modern thatch styles that are heavy and fancy and cost lots of cash.

I'm unsure about the high class house test, not even sure there'd be high class in the area... as well as the blocky/tall feel to a lot of the middle class homes. And the size of homes is kinda small in area compared to height, I'd try to avoid any plot size with a width of 3 blocks inside, rural homes would be fairly large to accommodate bigger families and even animals.

The castle feels rather dated, especially the roof of the maester's tower. The even spacing of the tower also messes with it. Also, it's extreamly square and illsuited for the kind of terrain the area has, the insp castle, karlstejn, sits atop its irregular hilltop but yours feels like it was jsut dropped there without consideration of the area. take a look at how chyttering, harvest and haystack halls do on their hills.

the port village's location is rather exposed. perhaps if it was on the blackwater bay? where it is now is not good for mooring a ship and connecting the islands doesn't seem practical enough in such a location due to the tides and possibly super rocky waters

speaking of locations, wouldnt it be better to have the castle at the top of the mountain rather than having an exposed side with the mountain? that's a common flaw with mountain castles on the server, even if almost sheer drop an enemy could always find a way up top then bam, burning keep or courtyards filled with besiegers instantly

 

[HardzzGaming]

Thanks for the advice, I've decided to remove the main village and spread it out into smaller villages throughout the area. I'll also change the castle plans to make it sit higher atop the mountain. I'll probably remove high class and work on the other house tests as well. I'll post here again once I've implemented the changes

 

[Luk]

Hey Kobe & Lucia,

i just wanted to ask if you are still interested in House Massey
and if there is any update you can give us?

Best regards

 

[HardzzGaming]

Hey Kobe & Lucia,

i just wanted to ask if you are still interested in House Massey
and if there is any update you can give us?

Best regards

Hey Luk, I did do some more tests on my plot after my last post here but I don't think I will continue with the project as I haven't got much time available to work on it.
So if anyone else wants to take on House Massey feel free to use or take inspiration from my plans.