Conquest/Siege game mode concept

[geeberry]

Hey dudes. Its been too long - I really want to start making real progress on a WesterosCraft themed PvP server. Something different and just as well crafted as our aesthetic.

I think this concept/game mode would be really fun given the castles we could use for it. I'd like to keep at least the first version of this pretty simple, we can expand as we get the MVP complete.

Feel free to offer any advice/ideas!

Conquest is a concept taken from the popular Battlefield series. It consists of two teams, one attacking, one defending. The mode starts with one area on the map that the attackers have to assail and the defenders prevent them from capturing it. As each point is captured, a new point opens up for capture, but it gets progressively harder to attack and capture as the defenders spawn closer and closer to the spawn point. If the attackers capture all the points within the time limit, they win, otherwise defenders win.



The first map would be Winterfell. The first point would be Wintertown, the second point would be the Winterfell gates. The third or more points I haven’t decided.


There would be three classes for both teams to choose from. This needs some work.

• Knight
  
  
  • -Sword
    
    
  • -Shield

• Archer
  
  
  • -Bow/Arrows

• Medic
  
  
  • -Bandages
    
    
  • -Sword or Knife of some kind. Maybe a mace?
    

Details

There would be a 10 minute timer for each point. As each point is captured , the timer is reset. If the time runs out, attackers lose/defenders win.


Players respawn after being killed, maybe after 10 seconds?


15 players per team - could be adjusted depending on lag or gameplay balancing.


Players on game start are automatically assigned to a team to ensure teams are even. Maybe a minute long lobby period between games?


Special points for attackers/defenders. Maybe a catapult that if successfully ‘launched’, blows a hole in the walls of Winterfell allowing a point of entry. Maybe points along the wall that a player has to go up to and build a ladder by holding E button on a point for so many seconds, etc etc. Lots of room to play with here.

 

[Aslanio]

I mean if you know how to code all this shit then go for it.

 

[Dan_Prime]

I can help with this once the launcher is done.

Spoiler: Season 4 Spoiler? I guess

It would be fun to have castle black be another involved map. Defenders are the night's watch and the attackers are the wildlings. (S4Ep9)

 

[geeberry]

I was thinking about the Nights Watch/Wilding attack. Would be cool at also have

Spoiler: Season 7 spoilers

A Nights Watch versus Others/White Walker mode with some modded player models. Maybe have playable Dragons as well, kind of similar to Behemoths in the BF1 Conquest mode.

 

[mdmeaux]

This would just be run as an MC server right? Not on UE4 like the MMO? If so, I'm fairly confident that I could get a crude version of this running on bog standard MC command blocks in a couple of days, as I'm fairly experienced in that sort of thing from a while ago, if we wanted something simple to mess around with. Naturally, it would probably be better to make a custom plugin or something for it, and I don't know how well command blocks would work with the modded client anyway, so this is just an idea, but I'd be happy to help none the less.

 

[GrayJedi]

After years of experience with MMORPGS its my time to shine,so i have some ideas for the whole thing.First of all the concept of winning and losing,it goes without question that every battle should have an impact on a dynamic world.Like if it was only just matches 16v16 or so,everybody would get bored, so we must divide the land into regions and each battle would mean that the winner gets to assert the region.

Heres what i would do with the points of capture. Three points of course.First point should be at the sprawl of the keep ,or the closest settlement ,simulating an attack or "razing" it ,just like an army would do.Second point should be at the gates as you said,preparing the last attack.Third point should be outside the hall of the keep (like if any army was to win a castle,that would be the last point to clear our right).So logicly,when you deafeat the enemy team outside their hall (if any) then you get it,easy!

About the gamemode,i think it should be 16 players each team too.But I would change the respawn idea a bit,you see with the regular respawn mechanics as battlefield each player dies and respawns at different time which causes a problem because every attack would be partly weak. What we could do is,have a timer (30 secs) in which every person that dies within that respawns at 0 secs.For example i die when its 25 seconds and my friend at 5 seconds,we both wait for the timer to get to 0 so we could respawn.That would easily fix the weak attack problem as every wave of attackers would be at least 3-4 instead of 1 by 1 by 1.(Simulates better wave of attacks and battle renforcements)

As for the time of each point,i would change that too.I would make the first point to capture 7 minutes,second 9 minutes, and then the third 12 minutes.Thats because on every point you progress,attackers have it more difficult to kill the defenders because the defenders spawn closer to the point defended.Thats why the third point would take 12 minutes bc they respawn directly at it as it is the last one.But in the first point ,the attackers spawn almost directly at it is the first one.That would create nervousness in both teams instead of just the defenders.Because if you lose by the first timer of 7 minutes (which is the easy one) you lost,its over!

I still do think that it shouldnt just be meaningless team by team but have some mmorpg elements like clan vs clan that would impact the servers story.When it is random team vs random team you dont really care about the outcome,you just play the game.But clan vs clan,you tryhard for the benefits and all that stuff the region would give.

About the special checkpoint thing,its a tricky business.Most games that add such mecahnic have their defenders just camping the specific point instead of playing the actual objective.So it must be something unique.You could have something of this nature,to spice up the gameplay but it causes many distractions to the player,so it must be rare.So what i was thinking is.The team of attackers on ever point has two options.Either go to capture the main point that helps them advance to the next one ,or go to capture the special point which makes the respawn instant for 25 seconds ,meaning no one that dies have to wait to respawn,he just respawn instantly.But the trick is that the special point and the point of capture are very far to each other,so the time you gain from the 25 seconds of instant respawn you lose at the effort of going back to the main point of capture.See the trick is that a well coordinated team with a good leader could easily pull this off as a tactic if they are well coordinated and know what they are doing(rush style of battlefield),but a team that doesnt talk spreads out and does whatever and just loses.As for the defenders,both points of capture should be visible but the special one very far again,so that it would be accesible for battle only for bowmen.
So here is my special point idea,very rushy, no camping and stuff.

Heres the roles i would choose to add for the game.

Knight
very defensive stats(good armor but bad sword) - is the team leader and has commands to talk to the team (if voice chat implemented only he can talk)
ability: if he is outside the point of capture,dead ppl can spawn at him,but not insside the point of capture.
weakness:basicly he is the tactical leader, and not many fighting is done
maybe he has a zooming mechanism to watch the far??
slots 1

Archer
slots 3
basicly bad armor and good bow but has a small dagger too (could be a very bad sword)
ability: once in 30 secs can fire an arrow without gravity drop that does blast damage of like 3x3 blocks (something like a modern grenade does)
weakness:runs slow

Solider:
good armour and mediocre sword + 1 bandage that heals 1/3 of life
basicly the fighting army.
Ability: his respawn is a few meters ahead of the rest of the team as he is the "front line"
weakness:when he gets low health he walks very slow untill bandaged
slots 7

Asassin
Very high quality sword but terrible armor
Basicly his role is to hunt down the enemy leader so ppl wont spawn at him.
Ability:When enemy leader is in xxx radius,he runs a lot faster
Weakness:Can be hit once and be stunned instantly ,also spawns very far from the battlefield.
Slots 1

medic
He has good armor but terrible sword
He carries a lot of bandages for soldiers
Ability:Runs fast and when a soldier is lower than 1/3 of life,an icon pops at his screen or whatever
Weakness:His armour(or bag that carries bandages) is very unique and easily spotted from an enemy,thus being hunt down very easily.
Slots 3

Also in different regions ,several roles could be added to make it more immersive to the situation (with a storyline).
These ideas are very basic for now,and they need a lot of tweaking between the timers and the stats to have true balance which will be achieved throught trial and error over and over again.

Also it would be very cool to add a cinematic -shadery animation before or after battles,sequences or even point captures to make it cooler.

Furthermore the point of capture as an idea shouldnt be just a region where you maintain your position and when the bar loads full you win,it should be a complex mechanism like raising a flag at a specific and very visible point done by multiple soldiers or a wall or gate being broken down by swords or something like that.

Thanks for reading my ideas
TLDR basicly a mixture of a lot of fps mechanics in battles and mmorpgs styles.


Edit:
Also i have a bunch of ideas if u want to implement horses in the fighting of the mmorpg.Like the cod mechanics where if you get a killstreak of 5 ,in your next respawn you get to run arround faster with a horse untill it gets killed and stuff like that.

 

[mdmeaux]

I still do think that it shouldnt just be meaningless team by team but have some mmorpg elements like clan vs clan that would impact the servers story.When it is random team vs random team you dont really care about the outcome,you just play the game.But clan vs clan,you tryhard for the benefits and all that stuff the region would give.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought that what's being suggested here is more of a standalone PVP game, unrelated to the MMORPG. I completely agree that in the MMO battles should affect the story, but I was under the impression that this specific conquest gamemode was just for some fun.

I also think that there should be incentive to play with the team, and actually go for objectives instead of it just becoming a free for all (the example that comes to mind is TF2). There should be a greater score bias for capturing, even if just assisting with capturing, points than just for say, killing people, and I think with the support classes such as the medic (if implemented) we should make sure that they are actually fun to play, and fun to play properly, but not just a case of kill assisting.

 

[CashBanks]

Gotta be a Battle Royale obvs

 

[Thamus_Knoward]

'Conquest' in the sense of the battlefield games would be all points ready for the taking at the start of the game. When points open up progressively I believe its called 'Frontlines', in BF1 at least.

Within 'conquest' there are two sub-divisions: 1) Both teams have at least one control point that cannot be captured to ensure the unlimited ability to spawn on either side. While they contest for an array (3-5) neutral control points. 2) One team holds all of the control points but they can all be captured by the opposite team. This is called 'conquest assault' in BF1.

On top of that, there is the dichotomy of 'classic' vs 'modern' conquest in terms of scoring.
Classic: Teams start off with a maximum amount of 'spawn tickets`. Each respawn reduces this number, but also the opposite team's dominance over the available control points. The more control points they hold, the faster the rate of ticket bleed. Revives are a means to invalidate the impact of respawns on this number.
Classic: Teams start off with zero points. They gain points only when they hold the majority of control points. The rate at which points are gained depends on the amount of control points that are held by one team. Respawns are free and thus revives are not factored into this calculation. Effectively this is the same as the 'domination' game mode of BF1 at a larger scale.

I'd personally go for 'classic conquest assault' when emulating a siege gameplay as it encourages supportive gameplay on either side (healing/ revving matters to the greater score), but also emulates the traditional roles of defenders and attackers in a siege situation: There is a limited amount of defenders (once all the points are captured there are no respawns from the defenders), but a potentially greater force of attackers. I prefer 'conquest assault' over 'frontlines' because it allows larger scale tactics such as flanking and feigning that bypass or break a potential stalemate situation in a linear head-on approach.

I think at one point in the history of the server we've already discussed a potential siege mode at great length. Check the old forums. There may be many salvageable ideas still! Especially the siege mode and classes were very fleshed out!

 

[Thamus_Knoward]

Spoiler: Excerpt from The MMO Almanach on Siege Event Gameplay

Siege Events

A Declaration of War enables the Warden to invest resources and money in a Siege Event in order to gain control over more Hubpoints. He sets the details of a Siege Event by sending a by sending a Raven carrying a letter sealed with Black Wax. Siege Events can be carried out between any warring Regions. In order to execute them, a base price of resources and money has to be payed. The minimal amount of slots per team equals the amount of players that are members of a Family in the two warring Regions. Family members of either of the two Regions may chose not to participate in Siege Events, but deserting comes at a cost of IIA.


For every X units more than the base price, slots for more soldiers can be bought. Families from other Regions and players that are not members of a Family can sign up to join either side, limited only be the available slots.


Siege Events are server-wide events that are automatically scheduled to a weekend. They are publicly announced on the Annals of WesterosCraft 48 hours after the Warden has sent the Raven (Black Wax), and are automatically executed on the soonest Saturday (Henceforth called Siege Saturday :] ). A Siege Event issued on a Thursday or Friday will happen the next week after. Siege Events are scheduled so that Regions never fight two Sieges simultaneously, should they happen to be attacked by many enemies. However, it is possible to have several Siege Events involving one Region either as the attacker or as the defender in succession.


Siege Gameplay:

A separate worldfile features a large portion of the terrain around the targeted Hubpoint, the full Hubpoint or a section of it, both in a state of siege, as well as a siege camp.

On Siege Saturday all players that want to take part in the Siege have to travel to the Hubpoint and stand in a Siege Zone. The Siege Event commences at a scheduled time, with the players that stood within the Siege Zones. The game automatically checks for players that are members of Families in the warring Regions and then fills the rest of the free slots by picking other players from the Zones randomly.


During the Siege the attackers can choose spawnpoints in the siege camps, whereas the defenders spawn at predetermined spots in the Hubpoint. The ADA counter is frozen during the time of the Siege Event, inventory items are not lost by dying, yet weapons and equipment still wears down. Buffs that have been cast by a Warden, aswell as Religious Buffs gained before the Siege remain active.


The goal of the game for the attackers is to reach a predetermined Capture Point. If an attacker stands next to it without the presence of a defender, the a counter will start counting down. However, if there's a defender next to the Capture Point, it won't count down at all. If there's no attackers next to the Capture Point but there are defenders, the counter will slowly count backwards. If the counter reaches the zero the attackers have won.


There is also a timer with a fixed time set depending on the map. A large map could easily take 30 minutes. If the timer reaches 0 and the Capture Point has not been captured by then, the attackers lose.


Attackers have infinite lives and respawn immediately. The downside is that they spawn in a siege camp and have to cover a distance to the actual siege towers. Defenders have a longer respawn time. They have 3 lives, and if they deplete them all, they are done for that game. They will be transported back to the Siege Zones.


King’s Landing: A Warden may only chose to attack King’s Landing once it has control over more than 50% of the Hubpoints in Westeros. King’s Landing will be defended by all of the enemies (Relations Matrix= -1) and the attack will be conducted by all of the allies (Relations Matrix= +1) of the attacking region, regardless of their interconnections.


Gaining control over King’s Landing is directly tied to gaining control over the Iron Throne.

Its a long read, but the almanach also contains suggestions on designs for classes and their respective buffs etc.