Block Change Request: House reed banner

Sapper

Playwright
Request: House reed banner

Request Type:
General Addition

Try to describe all workarounds and associated issues that make it necessary to add this block in your eyes.
I belive we need a house reed banner, the reeds are a major house comparable to even the manderlys. As we know the neck is getting redone and greywater watch and other neck builds will be done soon, I think a reed banner will be really take the Neck to the next step!
 

AerioOndos

Donkey Lord
I agree with Dutch here. Also then there's the complicated debate about how to depict a 'lizard-lion' and whether they are crocodiles/alligators or some kind of enormous monitor lizard, as crocodiles are mentioned elsewhere in ASOIAF
 
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Sapper

Playwright
Okay I’m back because I strongly feel this banner should be added.

House reed banners could be found all across the north and in the neck. I disagree I think banners would be found in Greywater watch. Banners are easy to make all you need is some wool and some wood, the people in the neck will have the ability to make banners and as I said before the Reeds are a major house in Westeros.
 

bwod_30

Bard
Idk about this one Sapp.

The crannogman are not like the other people of Westeros, and even though House Reed represents the Neck, I don’t see crannogman holding their noble houses/banners to the same influence that the rest of Westeros does with their houses. And like dutch said, if there were banners, there would be at most only a few around Greywater.
 

AerioOndos

Donkey Lord
Two issues cos I don't have that much time so I'll be blunt.
1. Reed is a major house because it is the leader of a strategic region. They're major because of their location, not because of wealth or honour. They're also one of the most insular/isolationist cultures on the continent.
2. The crannogmen also wouldn't necessarily have sheep or goats, they don't do particularly well in swampy humid environments. Footrot would be a huge killer of livestock. So that limits their supply of wool mostly to what is traded with Cape Kraken and other areas. Also, you can't exactly knit a banner (which still takes a long time.) you need to set up a loom with metres and metres of spun thread dyed to each individual colour (which isn't too bad in the case of Reed colours), which is another intensive process.
A good instagram that kinda shows whats going on is historicaltextile. They make their own dyes.
All in all it takes dozens of hours to make a single banner which could be done fishing, frog hunting or doing or crannog things.

However, this actually creates an interesting argument. Just how advanced/primitive do we want to represent the crannogmen?
Do we essentially make small artificial islands like the Scottish Crannogs, pier/stilt villages like some of the reconstructions of the scottish crannogs or do we use Central European Burgwall/Gords, which have a higher level of development and could facilitate bronzework and other 'heavy' industry better?

Crannogs are more flexible in placement while Gords usually relied on bends in a river, oxbow lakes etc.
 

Sapper

Playwright
Alright I accept my defeat... I think the closer to Greywaterwatch and moat cailin the more advanced they would be but like in the deep neck they prolly would be super primitive
 

bwod_30

Bard
I agree areas around Greywater may a tiny bit more civilized. I know in the Elder Scrolls universe, there is a travelling tree-city, but it has specific destination points that it cycles through. Maybe we could do this for greywater? And at each destination point there could be signs of life? It could make things slightly easier in planning the layout of crannogman in the neck. Just food for thought.

On the hand of Moat Cailin, I don’t see it having super strong signs of life around it. For one, it’s towards the edge of the Neck and far from Greywater. Also, in Clash, right before our setting, the ironborn take the Moat without too much effort. This prolly would’ve been more of a struggle if there was more crannogman up there.
 
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Margaery_Tyrell

Shadowbinder
Banners are hard to add and our data space can be used for better things.

I typically advocate for houses of large importance to have banners, typically with proven royal lineage or the resources to be able to make banners en masse.

So in The Reach that would be House Tyrell, House Tarly, House Hightower and House Redwyne. in the North it'd be House Stark, Bolton and Manderly
 

Sapper

Playwright
Alright good point Marge, agree.. but when the Reeds take over Westeros in Winds of Winter then we must add House Reed Banners.
 

AerioOndos

Donkey Lord
I agree areas around Greywater may a tiny bit more civilized. I know in the Elder Scrolls universe, there is a travelling tree-city, but it has specific destination points that it cycles through. Maybe we could do this for greywater? And at each destination point there could be signs of life? It could make things slightly easier in planning the layout of crannogman in the neck. Just food for thought.

On the hand of Moat Cailin, I don’t see it having super strong signs of life around it. For one, it’s towards the edge of the Neck and far from Greywater. Also, in Clash, right before our setting, the ironborn take the Moat without too much effort. This prolly would’ve been more of a struggle if there was more crannogman up there.

Its been suggested before, to have many seasonal camps essentially and move between them! Signs of life and evidence of 'disappearing' structures i.e. concealing them with foliage, making Crannogs themselves be grown over so that when the people return they can get fresh brushwood etc.
 

Emoticone11

The Dark Lord Sauron
Sounds like the general consensus is that Reed likely wouldn't have banners, so going to deny this suggestion. Discussion about Graywater in general should be moved to another thread unless relevant to the question of banners.