Low Block Change Request: Arrow, Sword and Bow blocks

[ContraBlonde]

Request: Arrow, Sword and Bow blocks

Request Type: General Addition

Try to describe all workarounds and associated issues that make it necessary to add this block in your eyes.
We currently do not have a good way to represent bows and bow-related professions such as fletchers.

Also an un-broken version of the sword block would be very useful for barracks and other defensive builds.

Types of evidence to support your request: Historical, Canon

Historical Evidence
Swords were the main weapon in medieval combat

What do u think arrow slits were used for?

Canonical Evidence
all the swords

the Tarlys are known for their swords and archery skills.

File(s) attached

 

[Thamus_Knoward]

This is so general that I wouldn’t know where to start. Plus, there’s a massive potential for this to outdate every armory if we don’t have a good policy of adding all these blocks in place.

Moozipan made a whole range of weapon item textures back in the day that could easily be added as items. For physical blocks however I‘d rather add something related to the storage of any type of weapons or ornamental arrangements but not all kinds of types of weapons.

Maybe a special block that can be visually equipped with severally items like the item frame? Not sure if that’s the best approach.

attached is a screen of moo‘s selection.

 

[Thamus_Knoward]

To represent trades better I‘d go for their tools or specific steps in the process rather than their products. Been thinking about tool kit blocks a while ago but only made a draft surgeon kit. Used a flat horseshoe-type block for it but I‘m not sure if that’s the best way to implement something like this. Tools could lie around, hang from a wall or be in a case or drawers.

 

[ContraBlonde]

“Plus, there’s a massive potential for this to outdate every armory if we don’t have a good policy of adding all these blocks in place”.

I don’t think out dating would be too much of an issue as updating barracks would only require adding a few of the new blocks as opposed to adding palette blocks like timber which require updating the whole building. Also now seems like the best time to add these blocks before the Redkeep, City walls and Goldcloaks of KL get updated and the defenses of Oldtown and the Arbor are done.

“For physical blocks however I‘d rather add something related to the storage of any type of weapons or ornamental arrangements but not all kinds of types of weapons.”

I suggest only adding bows and swords as they’re the most common and are pretty universal meaning they work anywhere. Also there is a precedent for these kinds of blocks as we already have the broken sword block, so it makes sense to add its un-broken counterpart.

“Maybe a special block that can be visually equipped with severally items like the item frame? Not sure if that’s the best approach.”

Item frames would not be a good way to do it since they are notoriously laggy, being entities

 

[Thamus_Knoward]

yeah, I don't disagree with any of what you said. Except, it's OK for a broken/ rusty sword to be lying around somewhere. However, for a functional sword, I'd argue the likelihood is low that it just sits somewhere.

In everyday use, would they not be carried on the person and only put down in their sheath? And if they are unsheathed would they not most likely be mounted as some sort of display?

I think it would be good to collect some authentic pics of what an armory did actually look like.

I have the following ideas:
- Bow: Simple mid-sized wooden bow. States: Either a) leaning or b) flat on the ground or c) both or d) both but as a single block with smart CTM/ blockstate logic that determines the state depending on there being full blocks around it?
- Sword: Simple mid-sized iron sword in its sheath/scabbard. Same states as above.
- Mounted Sword: Display swords - Crossed rapiers seems to be a common theme, but I could also do distinct pieces like generic greatswords or specific greatswords for each family.
- Cabinet or holder for spears. Not sure yet about the exact design here.
- Arrows. A bucket of arrows should be doable. But I could also do an arrangement of arrows sticking in the ground. Or a quiver hanging or standing?

 

[ContraBlonde]

yeah, I don't disagree with any of what you said. Except, it's OK for a broken/ rusty sword to be lying around somewhere. However, for a functional sword, I'd argue the likelihood is low that it just sits somewhere.

In everyday use, would they not be carried on the person and only put down in their sheath? And if they are unsheathed would they not most likely be mounted as some sort of display?

I think it would be good to collect some authentic pics of what an armory did actually look like.

I have the following ideas:
- Bow: Simple mid-sized wooden bow. States: Either a) leaning or b) flat on the ground or c) both or d) both but as a single block with smart CTM/ blockstate logic that determines the state depending on there being full blocks around it?
- Sword: Simple mid-sized iron sword in its sheath/scabbard. Same states as above.
- Mounted Sword: Display swords - Crossed rapiers seems to be a common theme, but I could also do distinct pieces like generic greatswords or specific greatswords for each family.
- Cabinet or holder for spears. Not sure yet about the exact design here.
- Arrows. A bucket of arrows should be doable. But I could also do an arrangement of arrows sticking in the ground. Or a quiver hanging or standing?

I’m curious to see what you come up with! I would appreciate it if you did do the arrows sticking out of the bucket like the picture I originally posted in my request, kind of like the candle altar block or iron throne blade

 

[Ric]

- Mounted Sword: Display swords - Crossed rapiers seems to be a common theme, but I could also do distinct pieces like generic greatswords or specific greatswords for each family.

I've seen a few guests asking where Dawn is in Starfall and being able to depict that would be very nice both for us and for visitors I believe. Even Ice could maybe be placed in the room of Ilyn Payne, I think it would be a nice touch, as he keeps the sword for a while.

Also, the Wiki of Ice and Fire says something interesting when speculating about their size:
"The Valyrian steel greatsword Ice is described as taller than an adolescent Robb Stark. Based on this, an "educated guess" is that the sword is about 1.65 meters long (or 5 feet and 5 inches). However, as Valyrian steel is considerably lighter than common steel, Valyrian greatswords are likely larger in general."

 

[Peptic]

Request: Arrow, Sword and Bow blocks

Request Type: General Addition

Try to describe all workarounds and associated issues that make it necessary to add this block in your eyes.
We currently do not have a good way to represent bows and bow-related professions such as fletchers.

Also an un-broken version of the sword block would be very useful for barracks and other defensive builds.

Types of evidence to support your request: Historical, Canon

Historical Evidence
Swords were the main weapon in medieval combat

What do u think arrow slits were used for?

Canonical Evidence
all the swords

the Tarlys are known for their swords and archery skills. View attachment 7090

File(s) attached

Were swords really the main weapon? I thought pikes/spears/some sort of poleaxe was more common? at least among the common foot soldier, I'm not sure though

 

[Margaery_Tyrell]

Make the bow and sword blocks like wood covers, so we can place them leaning against a block diagonally and also flat on the ground.

 

[AerioOndos]

Thats a good idea honestly.

On the arrow point, if they were just the feathers rather than the points of arrows, it would make it possible to both have an armoury/fletcher fully stocked with them in a basket or barrel as well as having the embedded line of arrows after a battle. In fact, having lines of arrows could let us demonstrate our knowledge of ASoIaF battles and provide interesting details as to where they've ended up in the placement. (I'm mostly thinking Redgrass Field and can't remember a main ASoIaF battle with heavy use of archers)

 

[Nicodemus]

Is this block request going to advance any further? Imo all points made so far have been well justified and presented and the request could imo well be done.

 

[Thamus_Knoward]

I'm happy to get onto the modeling and texturing side of things if I have some reasonable certainty that what I'll make will be implemented. ALSO, I generally don't have much time anymore to do research for appropriate reference pics. So you can always help things along by posting material that's time and canon appropriate.

 

[Emoticone11]

I'm fine with adding these if Thamus_Knoward is willing to provide the textures. I'd like some people to step up to the task of updating existing armories with the blocks in an organized fashion, though.

 

[Thamus_Knoward]

Noice! Now hit me with reference pics people!!

 

[ContraBlonde]

This is what I had in mind when I made the request.

 

[Thamus_Knoward]

Haha why do I feel that you essentially copy/pasting your OP puts us back at square one?

 

[AerioOndos]

I think we shouldn't have bare swords most of the time but instead have them in scabbards or with belt loops/frogs. preferably some swords with the belts wrapped around the scabbard too. If they have cover functionality, it'll look quite impressive and allow guard posts to feel much more ready for combat. I've also included some images of old rusted swords here too since its bloody annoying trying to find a sword blank (no additional parts except the continuous metal) that isn't pattern welded steel masquerading as damascene.

If we have the arrow block with just feathers and shaft, like CC's image. They could then look like already fired arrows impaled in the ground, arrows plugged into the ground for an archer to easily access them or packed into a barrel or basket, head down.

Apologies for images which are links. They are too big for the server to process apparently.

Spoiler: swords on ground

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/2080/1501/products/2_scabbard_-_for_Tods_Stuff_sword.jpg?v=1513639841

https://www.dbkcustomswords.com/images/blog/BJK/AlbionArnQuintTemplar/AlbionArnBKB1152.jpg

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/2080/1501/products/15th-early16thC_knotted.jpg?v=1518563573

Spoiler: sword blanks or dismantled sword

Spoiler: swords leaning

This ones a small sword among rifles but eh, its a sword leaning against something while inside a scabbard. https://c8.alamy.com/comp/JD98NF/sw...table-in-an-encampment-at-a-sealed-JD98NF.jpg

https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/firstfrontierdnd/images/9/9c/C642443e07185785d8f778698cc742c4.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20191004221824

against
^ if you look to the right of the camp there's a sword resting against a crate

Spoiler: arrows

Artofswordmaking by Maciej Kopciuch

Artofswordmaking by Maciej Kopciuch

artofswordmaking.com

^this shows us a really good example of a high class sword. Scabbards were expensive and more than a bit of leather. They're bone or wood lining shaped and formed then covered with wood and oiled so that the blade was kept in the best condition possible. Blade steel hates most things, including touching to anything and keeping a good looking sword clean takes hard word, hence the marker that sweat stained leather signals an experienced a warrior in ASOIAF often.
However, we need variation in the block so this is a good example of a 'high class' sword. This one is 15th C iirc.


The rest of the site is a brilliant resource as under the works tab they separate swords into different times and pay close attention to historical accuracy, mentioning where the original that they tried to recreate was from and cite historical texts on fencing and bladesmithing if they used them. Lots and lots of different examples with many levels of 'class' to them.

For the absolute lowest class version, it should have a blade stained and discoloured by sweat and bodily oil, a discoloured leather too! and maybe a sword frog rather than a scabbard

Definitely sword in scabbard versus sword out of scabbard ratio should be roughly 1:1 imo, then with the scabbard having an internal 1:4 unwrapped belts to wrapped belts ratio with the leaning/tilted cover raviant unable to have an unwrapped belt.

 

[Thamus_Knoward]

AerioOndos That's what I'm talking about when I say that I need inspirational material! Good stuff!

 

[Ric]

If you plan on making a valyrian greatsword display block for the unique swords (which I think would be really cool ) a good source of inspiration could be the Damascus Steel, as it seems GRRM used it as the main inspiration for them. I've also separated a few images:

Spoiler: Images

 

[AerioOndos]

Issue is that only the middle one of those images are examples of historical damascus steel. The top and bottom two appear to be pattern welded steel, or given a wash that makes it look like that, maybe even or potentially a ribbon folded steel. with the historical examples you can see where the they've had to use different cores of crucible 'Wootz' steel and joined them together into a single blade, which is evident in the almost cell like pattern you can see with tight horizontal warping.

Spoiler: images

13th C persian forged 'damascus' steel
Here's a helpful slide. Key feature is that the 'modern' damascus has much larger whorls, making it less like Valyrian steels 'trapped smoke' descriptions

https://sciencenotes.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/What-Is-Damascus-Steel_.jpg

Image of pattern formed by various impurities in crucible steel which help give the distinctive patterning and closeness of patterns to the swords. The production of these steel cores would create virtually no slag. Some of this patterning is apparently made by faint amounts of tungsten, vanadium and quite a number of other elements and compounds.



Not sure if this is original or something produced recently but it still has the distinctive whorl patterning though not to as obvious an extent. It is probably not a historical example because it does not feature the cell like pattern created by fusing together many crucible cores.

Here you can see the difference between a modern attempt, what might be and a historical wootz blade. the cell pattern is evident.

Now, Valyrian steel swords in Westeros have very much the same role as Ulbrecht swords in Europe. The steel was not local and potentially not worked by locals and considered of the highest possible quality. Many of these swords survive and could potentially have been all made by the same mans workshop (all within roughly a few generations of each other). Ulbrecht swords have been found throughout Central Europe and are potentially referenced in some of the Norse Sagas (I've seen theories that the sword Beowulf, king of the Geats, uses to kill Grendel was 'damascene', more likely an ulbrecht sword. Made in Europe from Sri Lankan Wootz crucible steel).