Update Application - KL3

Tobi

Poet
District Description:
KL3 is a district cornered by the Street of Seeds to the west, Street of Silk to the east and Swepherds Way to the south. With nothing really important in it canon wise.

New canon:
I found no canon for the district since there I nothing canon worthy in it. (If someone still finds something, please tell me :) )

District's current state:
Right now the district is a mix of maybe 10 buildings that are almost copied 100%. It looks abit repetitive. Also the thatch roofed houses near the wall dont really have good plotting, and are very cramped up.

Update plans:
The whole district has to be replotted from the ground up id say. But still with the intent on having a more "flee bottomish" looking strip next to the wall but with a bit more greenery in the form of gardens. Also update the current style to the generall KL style we have rn.

And I thought because of the "trade streets" in the west and east the district would have some storages on these two borders.

But in general it could be a more "boring" district with less important occupations and more living space. I would also like to add another small market square.

Another idea I had was to have a sunken down area in the poor area, because of the big sewer entrance beneath it. (Could be cool to see a dent in the roof line of the district.)1699396617926.png

1699395210603.png
White = market sqares
Red = Main roades (stormlands cobble)
Dark Green = Strorages for Street of Seeds and Silk
Blue = mostly appartments and multitenants
Yellow = flee bottomish lookin area
Orange = sunken down area because of sewer entrance
Brown = Main entrances to the poor (mud/dirt with stormland cobble pathces

As always feedback is very welcome.

--Tobi--
 

AerioOndos

Donkey Lord
Staff member
Pronouns
they/them
This is a space that the city would have grown into after the walls were finished so I'd suggest trying to make remnants of old field/large yard plotting, maybe have more rectangular shapes of "blocks" with a few yards clustered inside. Lower density w/ more multi tenants, rather than high density slum. I agree with the lowering of the rooflines, but through this rather than having a sinkhole (which would compromise the walls to the degree Tyrion would mention it, surely.
I've linked some maps by Plan.Janusza with the sort of square "blocks" of houses with yards inside that I'm trying to mean. Other examples are the little green area next to the gate in Duskendale.
In this one you can see how the internal yards become bigger the further away from dense inner city you go


Also Shepherd's Way/Hill Street is a on the other side of District 12 and Street of Silk on the other side of the Old Gate. You're far off enough to not be influenced by their foot traffic really.
Love the idea of focusing on residences rather than occupations. I'd lean into this as much as possible and have a few places to supply the urban population like pot shops, meat/veggie grilling or pancake instead of carpenters, thatchers, apothecaries etc etc. Not much, but some.
 

Emoticone11

The Dark Lord Sauron
Staff member
I'll have to double-check when I have more time, but I vaguely recall there being canon about ramshackle houses built up against the walls by the end of the 1st book, which I think is what we were going for with the dense plotting in the previous KL version.

That said, I wouldn't mind less dense plotting with more industry there. I think Homiesucc is going for similar in KL2. In general I would make sure to coordinate with her since you share a border.
 
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AerioOndos

Donkey Lord
Staff member
Pronouns
they/them
ramshackle houses against walls are definitely what happened going on against the outside. Tyrion had them burned down. I don't remember that happening inside the walls as well.
At least having the plotting get denser from a yard/farms point would be good, though difficult to illustrate.
 

Tobi

Poet
Did some House test for the "Flee bottomish" lookin area.
These type of houses and will be at the streets and in the "storage areas". And were the old fields are will be small huts that look like they were built in 2 hours to have the more clumbed up plotting.

1699536804927.png
I also want to add Kd to the project, and do it as a coop if thats allowed :)
 
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Emoticone11

The Dark Lord Sauron
Staff member
Your plotting and tests look really nice so far! A couple quick comments:

1. I'd convert some of the plotting into more regular, grid-aligned houses and yards. On the one hand, this is to ensure consistency with the rest of the KL style, which overall doesn't rely on diagonals that much except for aligning to diagonal roads, and curving/organic roads are used even less. On the other hand, given the history of KL being a rapidly constructed and planned (to some extent) city, it would make sense that the roads are less organic and free-flowing than cities like Oldtown which evolved over a long period and gradually incorporated rural sprawl. Also, it would help alleviate some of the awkward angles in the courtyards (e.g. the ones near the bottom left).

You could imagine combining this with Aeks's idea and having more regular rectangular blocks in the south of the district, and then some remnants of more organic yard/field layouts closer to the wall.

2. The large balconies will become very busy if they make up a majority of the district, so I'd plan on having some simpler multitenant variants as well.

EDIT: Overall I'd suggest sticking with something closer to the current state of the district, but revising some of the dense or awkward plotting to be more organized in terms of blocks like Aeks said. I'm not really convinced that replotting all of the streets and houses from the ground up to be something radically different is the best way to go about it.
 
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Tobi

Poet
Aight, Kd and me replottet the souther "blocks" so they have a more kl1 like courtyard.
The plots at the wall layed out a bit more natural to give them the effect if the fields that were there. Between the "bigger" houses that are plottet will be tents and small huts that can be build in like 2 hours by a family.
The rectangle on the left will be a tighter yard with a cart repair workshop in it which will be surrounded by used storage buildings and storage buildings now used as multitentants.

Style wise we try to be less stormlandish. When pasted in the kl map it will for sure be easier with the other houses around to not drift into a wrong style.

1700384933287.png

As always feedback is welcome, and best regards. :)

--KD/Tobi--
 

Emoticone11

The Dark Lord Sauron
Staff member
Hey Tobi,

This is definitely on the right track! I think the larger shared yards create a much better use of space.

I think there's still some plots that are a bit too small, cramped, or oddly angled, that contribute to more of a rural town feeling. For instance, I've circled one cluster of houses where the diagonal angles seem a bit forced (some of the ones to the right of that stick out to me as well). The chandler's guild as well should be modified to be grid-aligned, especially since one part of the plot already is, and there's not a big reason for that plot to be angled.

Screenshot 2023-11-21 05.56.37.png

Overall, I would recommend still decreasing the amount of diagonal houses. In the prevailing style of the KL remaster, these are usually no more than ~10-20% of plots, and usually only along diagonal streets where grid-aligned houses would be too awkward. You don't want to introduce that additional level of complexity just for the sake of adding variation, since KL already has a lot of detail going on.
 

Emoticone11

The Dark Lord Sauron
Staff member
Hey Tobi,

This looks better, I'm happy to approve now! I'd prefer if you do the development section-by-section though and keep me in the loop with progress.
 
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Light professions in KL3
Soooo finally, its me, sorry for letting you guys wait so long

Since there is currently only one light guild in Kings Landing, Emote and I came up with the idea of adding a beeswax and lantern guild in KL3 as in the old plan.

Basic information:

1703262853363.jpegChurches and monasteries were the main consumers of wax candles in the early Middle Ages and also produced most of them themselves. Due to the emergence of candle makers and lantern guilds in the 11th century, some professions were grouped together in metropolitan areas.
Candle makers, oil millers and soap makers were grouped together.
Around 1450 the candle makers left and founded their own guilds.
These were separated into beeswax and tallow guilds.
Both always competed with each other even though the Beeswax Guild benefited more from the church.
Beewax processing was very expensive, these candles could initially only be used by the wealthy.
Tallow candles and oil torches/lanterns still burned in most households.

Guild and Professions in KL3:
1703261764786.jpeg

This guild would be a beeswax guild.
Often other light professions such as lantern makers and oil sellers settled around these guilds.
The entire area often benefited from the lighting industry.

The advantage of beeswax was that it burns almost odorlessly and the candle-making methods are simple, apart from collecting the honey.
The wax combs from the bees were collected by farm groups and Yeomans from all over Kings Landing and then supplied to the guilds.
A good relationship with the rope makers was important in order to get the right candle wicks.

It all could be paired together with a lantern/night watchman outfittery and outpost.

Candle making:

I don't think I need to explain this process in detail. I'll pin some pictures.
Since there is a guild behind it, the entire industry would be well divided, managed and produces larger quantities and species.
I suggest dividing the process into different buildings and locations. Pay attention to short walkways, complementary professions and fire protection.
It would be great to see some new bigger scale manufacturing to set a good example for other bigger towns with similar professions.
Since beeswax does not gets bad, it can be stored for a long time. However, it should be stored dry and protected from light in stores and boxes.

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Lanternmaker:

The lantern makers does not need large forging furnaces, small pitforges or open fires are enough to bend the supplied metal plates and add decorations.
He works on two main types: oil lanterns with wicks or lanterns with candle holders for constant replacement.

1703262314487.jpeg1703262012153.jpeg

Lantern/Night watchmans:

Night watchmen can be well equipped through the light professions.
For example, there could be a sewing factory for uniforms, an outpost and supply center in this district.
A night watchman, a simple citizen was employed where the gold cloaks themselves were not active.
Usually equipped with a cloak and a halberd, he walked around the neighborhoods at night with his lantern.
He was a supervisor who ensured law and order in narrow streets that attracted rabble. One of his main tasks was to light the streets and look out for fires or other dangers.

1703262703331.jpeg1703262975645.jpeg

Im happy to provide more information and answer upcoming questions.
 
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Tobi

Poet
o/ Hello and sorry for the long wait. Due to a small technical difficulty i couldnt do an update post for kl3.
But we have done a good amount of progress as seen in the pictures.
Plans are same as before that the low class strip will continue for the whole section next to the wall. To fit the style of kl3 better the market out area on the left will be a big multi use building consisting mostly of appartments, like seen in the last attached picture.
Also the biggest of thanks to everyone that helped with the district. Special thanks to Wurst for giving this beautifull and informative post, 7 for doing most of the ints that were open (we will have to do some in your district now), and Awb that also did many of the more challenging ints and exteriours.
After all again a big sorry for the late update and feedback is as always welcome.

Hope yall had a Beautifull christmas, and will have a happy new year.
-Tobi and KD-
 

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Tobi

Poet
o/ Hello again.
After half a year of silence im yet back again with a update. AAAANNDDD kl3 is finnished :). Thanks to all the builders that helped with building and a special thanks to Wurst who gave us the brilliant guide about the chandler proffesion and KD for helping in every way imaginable.
Next points will be another round of feedback and then moving into Post approval.

-Tobi and KD-