The Arbor: Feedback, Suggestions & Testing

[Elduwin]

This thread is for feedback on the project in general or any aspects of it. If you have anything to share with us, please let us know here.

Testing is open to all builders. You can find the general inspirations on this document.

In it are the plans for the Arbor, what I plan for the landscape and the different settlements, the overall inspirations. The document will be updated during the testing phase.

Inspiration can be found here.

Of course, we are limited by canon, on the Arbor and on the House Redwyne. I encourage everyone to read it. It is rather small concerning the island itself, allowing for creativity and exploration of different inspirations and styles. Don't refrain your imagination for now!

What sort of tests do we need?
We need tests for everything, but most importantly for houses and the general styles.

Where can I test?
You can find the Arbor testing area at /warp arbortest:

• The map, at /warp arbormap
• Castle, at /warp arbortestcastle
• Navy, ships and harbors, at /warp arbortestnavy
• The Arbor, landscape and other islands, at /warp arbortestislands
• Vinetown, at /warp arbortestvinetown
• Ryamsport, at/warp arbortestryamsport
• Starfish Harbor, at /warp arborteststarfish
• Old tests, at /warp arbortestold

If you make a test, tag it. Every test that does not have a tag clearly indicating what it is and who built it has a chance to be removed without warning.

Eventually, the best tests will be selected and combined into a style guide, after which the server build will officially start.


Happy testing!

 

[ContraBlonde]

I have to say that I love your vision for the Arbor! It is full of potential and ideas just waiting to happen! Just a small correction/critique, the Alhambra is Granada, not Cordoba and I feel that it would fit better in Dorne. That being said I can provide you with some ideas if you like. I love the Mediterranean and everything about it: its architecture, culture, etc. I’d love to help if you need any!

 

[lemonbear]

My only critique is based around your discussion of the Arbor Isles. I spent quite some time working on the first version of the isles (even building Mermaid's Palace from scratch without WE). I totally get that they are out of date, but I would like a hand in any new version of the islands to keep my vision intact. Of my five isles, only three remain (as two were deleted from the map years ago without my knowledge): Mermaid's Palace, Stonecrab Cay, and Isle of Pigs.

Here is my original application imgur album: https://imgur.com/a/TnSwx

Again, it's super out of date, even for the final version of my project. The ruined villa on Mermaid's Palace was replaced with a ruined sept, and the houses were replaced with a recently repaired/reinhabited septry used as a pilgrimage location for the devout. And the island itself is based on an island off the shore of Capri, as well as the Blue Grotto.

Mermaid's Palace

Mermaid's Palace is a small island off the coast of the Arbor. It received its name from the small natural grotto situated in the rocky base of the island. Years ago, the island was a prominent location for pilgrimages done by followers of the Faith of the Seven; however, due to raids the sept...

westeroscraft.fandom.com

Stonecrab Cay could be more strongly realized, but I think the concept is still valid.

Stonecrab Cay

Over the years, people seeking some isolation and intending to make use of the large stonecrab population to make a profit tried to set up residence on the cay. However, driven away by the same crab population, they have ensured no one else will live on the island by spreading rumors of a...

westeroscraft.fandom.com

I never actually finished Isle of Pigs, largely because I was dissatisfied with the plotting, so feel free to edit that one however you wish.

Horseshoe Rock was only ever meant to be a rock shaped like a horseshoe (don't you dare make the current Mermaid's Palace into Horseshoe Rock).

And the wiki for Bastard's Cradle has all the information: https://westeroscraft.fandom.com/wiki/Bastard's_Cradle

Unless you determine my original concepts to be egregiously bad, I'd like to have a hand in updating them to fit new standards and the new Arbor project style.

 

[Antony]

I got some things to say regarding the Crete inspiration, as a Cretan, who lives minutes away from some of the places mentioned, basicaly the Spinalonga Island fort and Elounda basicaly, I can assure you, that the region, is not Arborish, when saying region, I mean the regions shown, basicaly northern coastal Crete and the two Western and Eastern edges, while the south and center are perfect, for that, with fertile valeys and plateaus, forrests, rivers and lakes.

Northern Crete, as I said before, is quite Dry and barren, where the terrain basicaly consists or red dry soil, rocks, a lot of rocks, of all sizes and shapes, a few plants, mostly bushes, like the aspalathos bush, wich for your information has spikes, wild herb bushes, which also have spikes, some bigger bushes, no taller than a man, and the occasional tree, which is either a cedar, a small pine, or a tamarix, close to beaches, basicaly, the region there is DRY, not how I visualized the Arbor.

(That is how I would visualise the Stepstones, as the Islets surrounding the Megalonisos (Μεγαλόνησος), and those regions shown, match exactly the description of those Islands)

So the other Greek islands, of either the Ionian or the Northern Aegean, and the Coastal areas there would provide better inspiration, as would southern and central Crete.

The perfect area in my opinion, for inspiration regarding the Arbor would be the Peloponese, which you have already used as inspiration, with the byzantine fortress town of Monemvasia, home to the legendary greek poet, Giannis Ritsos.

The Venetian architecture, on the other hand, found in Crete are a perfect match with the area, and while the some old parts of Candia, Iraklio, Heraklion, however you wish to call it, have not survived, the old cities of Rethymnon and Chania survive unscaved, with their venetian Cathedrals and Churches untouched, Heraclion also has some Surviving Cathedrals, but they are two in number, like Saint Marks Basilica, and the monastery of Saint Peter and Paul, whose church, is just massive) and would provide perfect inspiration for the towns of the island, as do and some of the old Venetian palazzos of the Feudal lords of the Island, like the Manor of the De Mezzo family in Etia, or the massive Palazzo of the Cornaro family in the village of Kritsa

Which I have recreated in my plot.

Also regarding Candia, and the other Cretan cities, I can provide maps and descriptions of them back in the day, which are quite accurate, and could provide great inspiration for the townplanning. Actually I can provide maps and descriptions of places, settlements, castles and fortresses all over the island.

 

[Elduwin]

I have to say that I love your vision for the Arbor! It is full of potential and ideas just waiting to happen! Just a small correction/critique, the Alhambra is Granada, not Cordoba and I feel that it would fit better in Dorne. That being said I can provide you with some ideas if you like. I love the Mediterranean and everything about it: its architecture, culture, etc. I’d love to help if you need any!

A few builders shared the same feeling about the Alhambra. I agree that it might not be the best closest insp to what I'm aiming for the Arbor. Will probably remove it or put it in a corner of my head.

My only critique is based around your discussion of the Arbor Isles. I spent quite some time working on the first version of the isles (even building Mermaid's Palace from scratch without WE). I totally get that they are out of date, but I would like a hand in any new version of the islands to keep my vision intact. Of my five isles, only three remain (as two were deleted from the map years ago without my knowledge): Mermaid's Palace, Stonecrab Cay, and Isle of Pigs.

I meant to send you a direct msg through the forum, now it's done, and I'm very happy to work with you on the islands surrounding the Arbor. You have priority on them. The insps can of course evolve. I'm not set yet on the position of Horseshoe Rock too.

I got some things to say regarding the Crete inspiration, as a Cretan, who lives minutes away from some of the places mentioned, basicaly the Spinalonga Island fort and Elounda basicaly, I can assure you, that the region, is not Arborish, when saying region, I mean the regions shown, basicaly northern coastal Crete and the two Western and Eastern edges, while the south and center are perfect, for that, with fertile valeys and plateaus, forrests, rivers and lakes.

Northern Crete, as I said before, is quite Dry and barren, where the terrain basicaly consists or red dry soil, rocks, a lot of rocks, of all sizes and shapes, a few plants, mostly bushes, like the aspalathos bush, wich for your information has spikes, wild herb bushes, which also have spikes, some bigger bushes, no taller than a man, and the occasional tree, which is either a cedar, a small pine, or a tamarix, close to beaches, basicaly, the region there is DRY, not how I visualized the Arbor.

(That is how I would visualise the Stepstones, as the Islets surrounding the Megalonisos (Μεγαλόνησος), and those regions shown, match exactly the description of those Islands)

So the other Greek islands, of either the Ionian or the Northern Aegean, and the Coastal areas there would provide better inspiration, as would southern and central Crete.

The perfect area in my opinion, for inspiration regarding the Arbor would be the Peloponese, which you have already used as inspiration, with the byzantine fortress town of Monemvasia, home to the legendary greek poet, Giannis Ritsos.

The Venetian architecture, on the other hand, found in Crete are a perfect match with the area, and while the some old parts of Candia, Iraklio, Heraklion, however you wish to call it, have not survived, the old cities of Rethymnon and Chania survive unscaved, with their venetian Cathedrals and Churches untouched, Heraclion also has some Surviving Cathedrals, but they are two in number, like Saint Marks Basilica, and the monastery of Saint Peter and Paul, whose church, is just massive) and would provide perfect inspiration for the towns of the island, as do and some of the old Venetian palazzos of the Feudal lords of the Island, like the Manor of the De Mezzo family in Etia, or the massive Palazzo of the Cornaro family in the village of Kritsa

Which I have recreated in my plot.

Also regarding Candia, and the other Cretan cities, I can provide maps and descriptions of them back in the day, which are quite accurate, and could provide great inspiration for the townplanning. Actually I can provide maps and descriptions of places, settlements, castles and fortresses all over the island.

Would love to have any pics, locations, towns, maps for that region, thanks for sharing @Antony ! Can discuss more in game too.

 

[Antony]

Would love to have any pics, locations, towns, maps for that region, thanks for sharing @Antony ! Can discuss more in game too.

Ofcourse Eld, whatever you need, I btw, got a book which describes the island in 1415, by an Italian Chartographer, Cristoforo Buondelmonti, which can surely provide great insight, I also got maps of the island from Francesco Basilicata, from the 1600s.

 

[JohanKR850]

Mini Santorini for Horseshoe Rock!!

Spoiler: Santorini

 

[lemonbear]

Alternatively, Molokini crater?

 

[Margaery_Tyrell]

Its good

 

[AerioOndos]

I’d say Molokini is like a mini Thera

 

[sheliaday]

That's great!

 

[Margaery_Tyrell]

Spoiler: Rocky Beaches

Spoiler: Sandy Beaches

Spoiler: Arbor Knight Galloping on The Beach

 

[Renly_Baratheon_]

Hey, I'm totally new here, just discovered Westeroscraft about a week ago and am slightly obsessed with it. After exploring most towns on the server I ended up here reading about the upcoming projects and it sounds really exciting.

Reading about the Ryamsport settlement in your proposal, I thought it would be interesting to look at how it is laid out since it is a wholly planned settlement. Of course, the terrain is ultimately the most important influence on the roadmaps. Nevertheless, most planned cities are based on a strict grid pattern and even on difficult terrain they try to adhere to that. You can see this in many American cities, both new (LA) and old (Savannah, New York). But their system goes back to Greek ideas of city planning, which can be seen in the plans of cities like Metapont, Milet or Megara Hyblaea. You can also see it in Pyreus, the harbour city of Athens. The system itself was "invented" by Hippodamus of Milet, although it is arguably older. However, his system particularly tries to be economical about public buildings. Of course, since Ryamsport is rather small, this aspect of the system would not be that important.
In Medieval France you can find a similar system applied in the Bastides. These were around 700 towns that were built in southern France in the 13th and 14th century. They have a grid layout with a marketplace in the middle. Larger examples of this are Carcassonne, Libourne or Villeneuve-sur-Lot. Smaller ones include Roquefixade (google with village, otherwise it will only show the fortress), Sauveterre-de-Rouerge, Monpazier (looks quite distinct with large arches around the main square), etc.
Obviously, the inspirations for Westeroscraft are medieval or older but depending on how specific the 'industry' of the town is, as planned by Ryam, it might also be interesting to look at the layout of company towns like Saltair and Akroydon but this might be a stretch since these kinds of towns are a result of the industrial revolution. Nevertheless, there were always people who tried to realize their concept of an ideal town and maybe Ryam had some thoughts about city planning.

I hope any of this is useful to you or at least interesting. I look forward to seeing the project progress.

 

[Nuggets - Shygirlstan]

Hi Eld, I am a bit worried about the Arbor.

It's September and you started plotting the port area etc. even if you haven't made a post here. It kinda keeps people in the dark about the state of the project.

I was wondering why you haven't posted anything on this thread and it might look to people like you are treating it like your own personal project and not a server build preparation and as such discouraging people from giving you feedback and even helping you with testing and plotting.

Another point I want to raise is that unlike other server builds in which a multitude of mods and builders discuss a community vision prior to opening the server build, but the Arbor is a one man show so far.

I encourage you to ask around other people who can bring feedback and help you develop the project in the future.

 

[DutchGuard]

I agree with Nuggs, even though I have previously given Eld my feedback which has been taken into consideration and acted upon.
A statement would be nice, but I think we should all feel comfortable about giving eachother feedback on the forums. There is nothing to stop anyone from posting feedback on this thread, or any thread, at any time, providing it is constructive.

 

[Elduwin]

Hi Eld, I am a bit worried about the Arbor.
It's September and you started plotting the port area etc. even if you haven't made a post here. It kinda keeps people in the dark about the state of the project.
I was wondering why you haven't posted anything on this thread and it might look to people like you are treating it like your own personal project and not a server build preparation and as such discouraging people from giving you feedback and even helping you with testing and plotting.
Another point I want to raise is that unlike other server builds in which a multitude of mods and builders discuss a community vision prior to opening the server build, but the Arbor is a one man show so far.
I encourage you to ask around other people who can bring feedback and help you develop the project in the future.

First, thanks for taking the time to post here your opinion on how I am managing the Arbor. I'm sorry that you feel I'm doing it on my own and that my behavior may discourage people from giving feedback or help with anything. It is the complete opposite of what I could want. I hoped that the multiple attempts of reminding that the test area is open for all, had make people feel the other way. I think I've been pretty transparent about everything, as all the maps and mini are either on test world or on the forums threads.

I'm not sure why you consider that I haven't posted anything on this thread, as there is still the 1st post and it is still relevant.
This thread is all about sharing ideas and views about the Arbor. Some people have made it here, others have sent me direct msg through Disc or the forum.
Obviously, I've continued researching insps or ideas for the Arbor, and that are not yet on the docs on the original post. But I also hoped that more people may have shared their personal views of what the Arbor should become.

I've been working recently on defining Vinetown's footprint, to work the terra around it, and then move to the 2 other towns and the rest of the island.
As several people rightfully noticed that it was far too big, I've been fixing and working on that these past couple weeks. I have actually reached to many builders and to my fellow mods about that, stating all the time that I was open to change my plans (as long as there were arguments reasons to do so). The fact is that it has already been reduced by 1/3 (for the town itself, 1/4 for the whole footprint). It it still flexible and subject to modifications. Last in date was Dutch's suggestion to move a part of the western wall.

Yes, I recognize I was going crazy with the 1st layout of Vinetown. It was far too large. It's actually not that easy to get a sense of scale with everything grey. I'm happy several builders pointed it out to me, although I'm pretty sure I'd have downsized it at some point myself.
The fact that I've placed a few (potential, not final) buildings in Vinetown is to get a sense of the distances and scales, and only that. This is exactly why I haven't started to plot neither the castle nor any other houses or buildings of the town itself. I consider it part of the server build, like you say. But, like OT or any other server build, there is still some very early planning that is hard to do as a server build, with many people working on it.
The Arbor (as the grey waste it is so far can attest) is at a very early stage. With the precious help of Cash, we're currently working on making the whole terra of the island. But, considering it does have 3 towns, I can't just ignore them when terraforming. This is why the plotting of the wall is what I've been working recently. Once it is done, I was planning (but this will do a preview, I guess) to make a new updated map of Vinetown, and probably of the 2 other towns as well. I intended to use these maps to make a public update on the status of the Arbor.

Finally, I could quote all the words of Dutch about giving feedback. I would even add that, yay!, I've been fairly often in game for the past couple months. I would really invite you Nuggs, and anyone else, to reach out to me in game if you have any concern. And if you don't feel so, don't hesitate to post here, on Disc, leave melons on the minis, etc.
About "working on my own", I welcome any help, from mods and builders, on anything. And even guests for feedback on the forum. I don't really feel confortable with reaching to specific builders and ask them in one-to-one to lead sub parts, as it's not really my view of a public, transparent and fair management. I think the summer survey raised the issue of a sort of elite, being part of everything and leading everything. It was partly a reason of the critics towards OT server build, not so long ago (that some builders were already on building stuff, in some obscure way of designation). I don't have all the answers, and my way of leading this server build has probably a lot to improve, but I hope to include everybody, no matter their skills or anything else.

I hope it clarified some things. I will do my best to make a real update statement soon, with beautiful maps.

 

[SseriousBusiness]

First, thanks for taking the time to post here your opinion on how I am managing the Arbor. I'm sorry that you feel I'm doing it on my own and that my behavior may discourage people from giving feedback or help with anything. It is the complete opposite of what I could want. I hoped that the multiple attempts of reminding that the test area is open for all, had make people feel the other way. I think I've been pretty transparent about everything, as all the maps and mini are either on test world or on the forums threads.

I'm not sure why you consider that I haven't posted anything on this thread, as there is still the 1st post and it is still relevant.
This thread is all about sharing ideas and views about the Arbor. Some people have made it here, others have sent me direct msg through Disc or the forum.
Obviously, I've continued researching insps or ideas for the Arbor, and that are not yet on the docs on the original post. But I also hoped that more people may have shared their personal views of what the Arbor should become.

I've been working recently on defining Vinetown's footprint, to work the terra around it, and then move to the 2 other towns and the rest of the island.
As several people rightfully noticed that it was far too big, I've been fixing and working on that these past couple weeks. I have actually reached to many builders and to my fellow mods about that, stating all the time that I was open to change my plans (as long as there were arguments reasons to do so). The fact is that it has already been reduced by 1/3 (for the town itself, 1/4 for the whole footprint). It it still flexible and subject to modifications. Last in date was Dutch's suggestion to move a part of the western wall.

Yes, I recognize I was going crazy with the 1st layout of Vinetown. It was far too large. It's actually not that easy to get a sense of scale with everything grey. I'm happy several builders pointed it out to me, although I'm pretty sure I'd have downsized it at some point myself.
The fact that I've placed a few (potential, not final) buildings in Vinetown is to get a sense of the distances and scales, and only that. This is exactly why I haven't started to plot neither the castle nor any other houses or buildings of the town itself. I consider it part of the server build, like you say. But, like OT or any other server build, there is still some very early planning that is hard to do as a server build, with many people working on it.
The Arbor (as the grey waste it is so far can attest) is at a very early stage. With the precious help of Cash, we're currently working on making the whole terra of the island. But, considering it does have 3 towns, I can't just ignore them when terraforming. This is why the plotting of the wall is what I've been working recently. Once it is done, I was planning (but this will do a preview, I guess) to make a new updated map of Vinetown, and probably of the 2 other towns as well. I intended to use these maps to make a public update on the status of the Arbor.

Finally, I could quote all the words of Dutch about giving feedback. I would even add that, yay!, I've been fairly often in game for the past couple months. I would really invite you Nuggs, and anyone else, to reach out to me in game if you have any concern. And if you don't feel so, don't hesitate to post here, on Disc, leave melons on the minis, etc.
About "working on my own", I welcome any help, from mods and builders, on anything. And even guests for feedback on the forum. I don't really feel confortable with reaching to specific builders and ask them in one-to-one to lead sub parts, as it's not really my view of a public, transparent and fair management. I think the summer survey raised the issue of a sort of elite, being part of everything and leading everything. It was partly a reason of the critics towards OT server build, not so long ago (that some builders were already on building stuff, in some obscure way of designation). I don't have all the answers, and my way of leading this server build has probably a lot to improve, but I hope to include everybody, no matter their skills or anything else.

I hope it clarified some things. I will do my best to make a real update statement soon, with beautiful maps.

Beautifully said! I myself can attest that so far all my feedback and opinions have been heard or taken account. Keep up the good work!

 

[Elduwin]

Reminder: the testing phase is still ongoing, go to /warp arbortest to make some tests for the Arbor server build.
This is the best way to contribue in settling a house style that satisfy everybody.

 

[Azulejo]

Many people right know are testing or applying for one of the many islands off the coast of the Arbor. This reminded me of an island near Alicante, in the Mediterranean, that may be very useful inspo for someone, before everyone finishes: Nueva Tabarca.

Nueva Tabarca, Tabarca or Isla Plana is a small island 4,5 km from the coast of Southeastern Spain, in the Mediterranean. It was repopulated in the 1700s with Genoese that scaped from Tabarka, another island in Tunisia. It is very small (1800 x 450 m) and low (max height 15 m).

The island is mostly a slightly raised plateau over the sea, with little vegetation, a lighthouse, a small castle/tower and the fortified town, built in the mid 1700s (so not exactly useful as direct inspo, but the vibe and some buildings are). I think it has a very unique feeling, both its Geologic/Geographic features as well as its history, and it is already very small, with may help with scaling it down to fit in-game.

Spoiler: Isla de Tabarca

 

[Azulejo]

Maybe I'm a bit too late but the cliffside houses of Ryamsport reminded me a lot to the Casas Colgantes (hanging houses) of Cuenca. Alongside Bonifacio, the main inspo for the town, it could be helpful for creating those dramatic façades right by the cliff. Usefull also for seeing how the man-made walls blend with the rock.

Spoiler: Cuenca cliff houses

EDIT: First pic isn't Cuenca, it's Frías, a town in Burgos, northern Spain.