Homiesucc
Envoy
- Pronouns
- she/her
Robb's Camp by Homiesucc and Finn01
- Thread starter Homiesucc
- Start date
-
The Spring 2023 edition of The Rookery is now out! Take a look to see the latest builds, guides, progress and development updates on the upcoming 1.18.2 switch. You can read it here:
https://indd.adobe.com/view/f943da18-ed77-4d55-845d-fee9bfa14247
Enah
Skinchanger
Approved by me enah who is totally a maester 
WalrusBehindYou
Herald
- Pronouns
- he/him
https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1iBqyRrRSahepogHKatGkrYNSVCAq_44IyUR8j69FNvk/edit?usp=sharing google link cause the imgur wasnt working for me
Hi Homie,
Thanks for the amazing amount of work you've put into this! Especially getting all the houses down and looking into the additional features, including remnants of the previous siege, casualties, and the scale of the camp.
My only couple of pieces of feedback are as follows:
1. I think the map you're using is much wider than the set area for the camp. The scale you've drawn takes up about half the Riverrun mega area and covers the settlements of Dedstow, Longdale, and Harvel, as well as the White wood.. which is way too big. There may be members of Robb's host holding Dedstow and a garrison at Longdale, besides a primary garrison at Harvel, but it seems a bit extensive at the moment. Please see the map below and note the area designated for Robb's Camp, including the narrow areas on the two banks across from the castle. It might be worth reviewing the placement of each house's men.
As mentioned above, there will be garrisons stationed at the three settlements immediately south of the castle, but not to the current plans' extent.
2. Only a small thing, but I'd love to see some more diagonal tent tests - I've made a few outside the castle walls, which would be good to incorporate. I'm keen that the camp feels very organic and doesn't conform to a complete grid. Any carts, siege equipment, siege lines, and other amenities would also be good to see tested.
Once you've reviewed the map, I'll be happy to approve this.
Great work!
Thanks for the amazing amount of work you've put into this! Especially getting all the houses down and looking into the additional features, including remnants of the previous siege, casualties, and the scale of the camp.
My only couple of pieces of feedback are as follows:
1. I think the map you're using is much wider than the set area for the camp. The scale you've drawn takes up about half the Riverrun mega area and covers the settlements of Dedstow, Longdale, and Harvel, as well as the White wood.. which is way too big. There may be members of Robb's host holding Dedstow and a garrison at Longdale, besides a primary garrison at Harvel, but it seems a bit extensive at the moment. Please see the map below and note the area designated for Robb's Camp, including the narrow areas on the two banks across from the castle. It might be worth reviewing the placement of each house's men.
As mentioned above, there will be garrisons stationed at the three settlements immediately south of the castle, but not to the current plans' extent.
2. Only a small thing, but I'd love to see some more diagonal tent tests - I've made a few outside the castle walls, which would be good to incorporate. I'm keen that the camp feels very organic and doesn't conform to a complete grid. Any carts, siege equipment, siege lines, and other amenities would also be good to see tested.
Once you've reviewed the map, I'll be happy to approve this.
Great work!
Homiesucc
Envoy
- Pronouns
- she/her
I apol
ogise for the size, I was just going off the map you showed me lol. and yeah, I was planning on just stealing your angled ones lol.the only thing that concerns me is this isnt going to be big enough. consider hgtourney's size and the fact that's only made to represent a few hundred people.
Last edited:
Concerning the size, I think this is one of the (many) times we have to sacrifice the size and extension of a build to take into account the scale of our map. Even if we were to redo the entire map in a bigger scale, some stuff would inevitably have to be left for imagination and I think the warcamps (all of them) will have to fall into that. You did a quite nice research into the numbers of each house, but I would suggest you to not attach yourself so much to them and try more to represent the escale of each houses' forces rather than an absolute number.
I would like to further recommend that you also not worry too much into showing which area belongs to which house. Most common tents shoulnd differ too much from each other regardless of affiliation. Having some color variety would be nice but I would just suggest to be mindfull of that and remember that even with the (sometimes) conflicting loyaties, it's still a single army, even with it's accentuated subdivisions. Remember too that the lords themselves, the greater nobles, are certainly enjoying the dry and heated hall of the castle nearby rather than staying in the mud and cold with the lowborns.
Also I think a nice thing to do would be to add makeshift or swiftly made defenses arond the borders of the camp. Nothing too fancy or complex, some palisade walls and simple gates would be nice already, as well as some not-so-tall watchtowers and not-so-deep trenches. The Nilfgaardian camp in The Witcher 3 could be a good example (although a bit "too much" for Robb's camp, perhaps).
Two final suggestions: adding camp followers in the peripheral areas of the camp would be a nice detail, nodding to canon - maybe you can even fit a reference to Talisa Stark from the show, if you think of a way to make it fit. The other suggestion is, when making the details of the camp try to show a sense of a lot going on. Soldiers wouldn't just be left standing still, there would be work found for them: raising palisades, cleaning stuff, fixing stuff, preparing stuff, training, carpentry, watching, etc.
I would like to further recommend that you also not worry too much into showing which area belongs to which house. Most common tents shoulnd differ too much from each other regardless of affiliation. Having some color variety would be nice but I would just suggest to be mindfull of that and remember that even with the (sometimes) conflicting loyaties, it's still a single army, even with it's accentuated subdivisions. Remember too that the lords themselves, the greater nobles, are certainly enjoying the dry and heated hall of the castle nearby rather than staying in the mud and cold with the lowborns.
Also I think a nice thing to do would be to add makeshift or swiftly made defenses arond the borders of the camp. Nothing too fancy or complex, some palisade walls and simple gates would be nice already, as well as some not-so-tall watchtowers and not-so-deep trenches. The Nilfgaardian camp in The Witcher 3 could be a good example (although a bit "too much" for Robb's camp, perhaps).
Two final suggestions: adding camp followers in the peripheral areas of the camp would be a nice detail, nodding to canon - maybe you can even fit a reference to Talisa Stark from the show, if you think of a way to make it fit. The other suggestion is, when making the details of the camp try to show a sense of a lot going on. Soldiers wouldn't just be left standing still, there would be work found for them: raising palisades, cleaning stuff, fixing stuff, preparing stuff, training, carpentry, watching, etc.
Homiesucc
Envoy
- Pronouns
- she/her
Yeah ric if you look at the tests you can see most of the tents are just white wool with a few furs iirc. The only ones that are house themed are the tents belonging to specific people like captains, knights, lords etc. Also Riverrun does not have infinite bedrooms lol, there's more or less 60 nobles in Robb's army, and I doubt Riverrun can find bedrooms for more than a few.
As for the defenses, sure but the camp goes right to the rivers and the only defenses that would be necessary would be the roads. Tywin has essentially pulled every single soldier he could find out of the westerlands (to the point that when a guy tries to raise an army in LP to deal with the invading Northmen, the best they can do is teenagers and the elderly). and Robb would probably have scouts out already looking to see what the situation is in the rest of the Riverlands, and he absolutely has scouts watching the parts of the gold road that go through the riverlands. The camp is physically in no danger at all unless tywin takes his entire army back through pinkmaiden and attacks from the south.
Yeah adding some essosi/dornish (idr where Talisa was from) medics and shit would be fun. Also yeah I think we've got that pretty good from the tests. and yeah thanks for the images!
I would still make a case for some light defenses along the bridges and roads. Would look cool and, regardless of scouts, a camp would have them for sure. Takes time to set them up and, again, it's work to do for the mass of men you have to take care of.
I'm fully with Ric on this one. The HG tourney isn't really a great reference for the scale of the camp - we're really not able to represent the full host. Riverrun castle has some space for the more senior bannermen, but others would make do in the halls and holdfast towers surrounding the castle. The village of Harvel would be almost entirely taken over by the host, with streets lined with makeshift tents, and the larger buildings used as shelter for those displaced by the conflict - maybe even prisoners of war held here.
You've missed out on your map the areas I mentioned before on the shores of the river. Riverrun will have two defensive towers across from the castle which will need to be garrisoned by Robb's host (Marked by black squares). Makeshift guard posts on the river road would also be likely. Some of the forces would likely be stationed at Wayn-a-Watering, and Burhgate. The rear of the host would likely be stationed in Dedstow, to keep vigilant of further reinforcements marching up from the Golden Tooth.
I appreciate that below shows the lannister host at Riverrun in the show, but scale wise, this feels like a minimum. What's been outlined in the plans for the area would exceed this, and from a sense of immersion, I think the area designated is more appropriate.
You've missed out on your map the areas I mentioned before on the shores of the river. Riverrun will have two defensive towers across from the castle which will need to be garrisoned by Robb's host (Marked by black squares). Makeshift guard posts on the river road would also be likely. Some of the forces would likely be stationed at Wayn-a-Watering, and Burhgate. The rear of the host would likely be stationed in Dedstow, to keep vigilant of further reinforcements marching up from the Golden Tooth.
I appreciate that below shows the lannister host at Riverrun in the show, but scale wise, this feels like a minimum. What's been outlined in the plans for the area would exceed this, and from a sense of immersion, I think the area designated is more appropriate.
Homiesucc
Envoy
- Pronouns
- she/her
Oooooo i see what you mean yeah. Manned palisades and small watchtowers along the roads yes. I made this map a lot faster so just imagine the borders are a lot wavier. Also imagine tents through the towns etc
Margaery_Tyrell
The Dark Lord Sauron
Hg’s warcamp is split into 2-3 camps
The HG tourney is to gather levies from the Highgarden core region
The Tarly/Oldflowers camp is those from the Southern Reach and Dornish Marches
And a speculative third camp of Stormlanders traveling down the Rose Road to meet with Renly at Highgarden
All three are made with the caveat that they arent *to scale* and its a scaled down warcamp/tourney due to server and attention span limitations (same as our farmland and settlement scale). Its basically realism vs immersion
Last edited:
EStoop
Knight of Fairmarket
Hey Homie (and Finn),
As we discussed earlier I think there are some mistakes regarding the size of the host.
Robb splits his army up at the Twins, with him and the cavalry racing towards Riverrun and Roose and the footmen going down the Kingsroad to face Tywin at the battle of the Green Fork. After losing the battle Roose regroups at the causeway, then travels to the Twins to marry Fat Walda and goes down the Kingsroad again to take the Ruby Ford and later Harrenhal. Roose never gets to Riverrun, and neither does most of the Northern footmen.
This split has resulted in a setup of the two hosts that may feel a bit counter-intuitive at first, namely that the footmen of (for example) the Umbers are not under the command of an Umber but of Roose or one of the lords who whent with him (or perhaps a lesser Umber). In short; knights and commanders do not give an indication of the men present in either host.
After the siege of Riverrun, Edmure sends his bannermen all over the Riverlands to retake their castles and Robb marches his Northmen (and perhaps a few of the Rivermen) into the Westerlands for some sweet revenge. He has ~6.000 men at the Battle of Oxcross, more or less the same number as present at the battle of the camps. He doesn't need a lot of men to carve through the Westerlands since Jaime's host has been destroyed at Riverrun, Tywins host is stuck behind the fords and all that's left to defend the Westerlands is the Golden Tooth (which they go around) and a third host of untrained recruits (read; peasants) and a handful of third rate knights.
So what does this mean for the app? I don't think you need to change a lot. There is already no possible way to depict a host of in the thousands on our scale, but I do think there are chances to depict the makeup of Robb's host to make the camp more interesting and set it apart from the others on our server. Since most of it is mounted, make sure to add details that depict this. The camp is quite unique due to the lack of footmen. Additionally, you could also depict remnants of the Lannister host, think of ditches facing Riverrun, abandoned siege engines and rafts. Perhaps there are a couple of mass graves nearby?
As for the houses that are present, the only change I'd make is to remove the Boltons entirely. I think it's likely Roose took all his own men including the Bolton cavalry and that those, along with a number of knights from the Freys, make up the 600 cavalry in his army.
Given this, we do need to keep in mind that Roose's army is still out there somewere between the Causeway and the Ruby Ford. Personally I'd place them near the Twins if only for the reason that we have the space for it there. However, this is a problem for whoever takes up that project.
Having said all the above; I'm confident you two will make this camp one of the best we have on the server.
Kind regards,
Stoop
As we discussed earlier I think there are some mistakes regarding the size of the host.
Robb splits his army up at the Twins, with him and the cavalry racing towards Riverrun and Roose and the footmen going down the Kingsroad to face Tywin at the battle of the Green Fork. After losing the battle Roose regroups at the causeway, then travels to the Twins to marry Fat Walda and goes down the Kingsroad again to take the Ruby Ford and later Harrenhal. Roose never gets to Riverrun, and neither does most of the Northern footmen.
This split has resulted in a setup of the two hosts that may feel a bit counter-intuitive at first, namely that the footmen of (for example) the Umbers are not under the command of an Umber but of Roose or one of the lords who whent with him (or perhaps a lesser Umber). In short; knights and commanders do not give an indication of the men present in either host.
After the siege of Riverrun, Edmure sends his bannermen all over the Riverlands to retake their castles and Robb marches his Northmen (and perhaps a few of the Rivermen) into the Westerlands for some sweet revenge. He has ~6.000 men at the Battle of Oxcross, more or less the same number as present at the battle of the camps. He doesn't need a lot of men to carve through the Westerlands since Jaime's host has been destroyed at Riverrun, Tywins host is stuck behind the fords and all that's left to defend the Westerlands is the Golden Tooth (which they go around) and a third host of untrained recruits (read; peasants) and a handful of third rate knights.
So what does this mean for the app? I don't think you need to change a lot. There is already no possible way to depict a host of in the thousands on our scale, but I do think there are chances to depict the makeup of Robb's host to make the camp more interesting and set it apart from the others on our server. Since most of it is mounted, make sure to add details that depict this. The camp is quite unique due to the lack of footmen. Additionally, you could also depict remnants of the Lannister host, think of ditches facing Riverrun, abandoned siege engines and rafts. Perhaps there are a couple of mass graves nearby?
As for the houses that are present, the only change I'd make is to remove the Boltons entirely. I think it's likely Roose took all his own men including the Bolton cavalry and that those, along with a number of knights from the Freys, make up the 600 cavalry in his army.
Given this, we do need to keep in mind that Roose's army is still out there somewere between the Causeway and the Ruby Ford. Personally I'd place them near the Twins if only for the reason that we have the space for it there. However, this is a problem for whoever takes up that project.
Having said all the above; I'm confident you two will make this camp one of the best we have on the server.
Kind regards,
Stoop
Margaery_Tyrell
The Dark Lord Sauron
I thought we had previously agreed that Roose was at The Twins with the Bridge Florents?
Marg and Stoop are both right. It had slipped my mind, but we had indeed previously discussed about Roose, as well as the general locations of armies in the Riverlands, a huge task DutchGuard had gone thru some years ago. It was a good discussion and it's results are still the basis for some stuff going on today (this camps location in Riverrun, the camps planned for around the God's Eye), so I'll just link here the definitive post Dutch made: https://forum.westeroscraft.com/thr...-our-server-3-3-299-ac.2375/page-4#post-26004
Also I wouldn't worry too much, as Stoop said you guys probably don't have to change too many things in your plans. I'm confident it'll look great too
For convinience, here's the image from Dutch's post:
Yellow: Tywin Lannister
After setting out from Golden Tooth and taking Riverrun they continue on to Raventree Hall and Harrenhal. After taking Harrenhal, they meet Roose Bolton at the Battle of the Green Fork, then return to the Crossroads and set up camp there briefly before returning to Harrenhal. They march very quickly.
Purple: Gregor Clegane
Has been raiding the Western riverlands [Wendish Town, Sherrer] for some time before taking Pinkmaiden, he re-joins Tywin's invading army after taking Stone Hedge, sacks Darry at some point, and begins raiding out of Harrenhal once Tywin is camped there. He is headed around the east coast of the God's Eye in a route either with Amory Lorch or parallel to it. They split off as Amory sacks Sow's Horn and Gregor goes west across Bowshot Bridge, burning it behind him after he crosses. He then eventually makes his way up to the fishing village where he (after the current point in the timeline) intercepts Arya & Co.
Orange: Vargo Hoat
Raiding around Harrenhal, might be working his way towards Maidenpool.
Red: Amory Lorch
Attacks Sow's Horn, burns the bridge on Hayford road before heading up to the God's Eye Town where he attacks Arya & Co.
Green: Roose Bolton
Marches south to meet Tywin at the battle of the Green Fork before returning to camp outside the Twins
White: Robb Stark
Marches south through Hag's Mire and Sevenstreams to reach the Battle of the Whispering Wood where he captures Jaime before retaking Riverrun (and likely sends forces to liberate Raventree Hall and Stone Hedge).
Also I wouldn't worry too much, as Stoop said you guys probably don't have to change too many things in your plans. I'm confident it'll look great too
For convinience, here's the image from Dutch's post:
Yellow: Tywin Lannister
After setting out from Golden Tooth and taking Riverrun they continue on to Raventree Hall and Harrenhal. After taking Harrenhal, they meet Roose Bolton at the Battle of the Green Fork, then return to the Crossroads and set up camp there briefly before returning to Harrenhal. They march very quickly.
Purple: Gregor Clegane
Has been raiding the Western riverlands [Wendish Town, Sherrer] for some time before taking Pinkmaiden, he re-joins Tywin's invading army after taking Stone Hedge, sacks Darry at some point, and begins raiding out of Harrenhal once Tywin is camped there. He is headed around the east coast of the God's Eye in a route either with Amory Lorch or parallel to it. They split off as Amory sacks Sow's Horn and Gregor goes west across Bowshot Bridge, burning it behind him after he crosses. He then eventually makes his way up to the fishing village where he (after the current point in the timeline) intercepts Arya & Co.
Orange: Vargo Hoat
Raiding around Harrenhal, might be working his way towards Maidenpool.
Red: Amory Lorch
Attacks Sow's Horn, burns the bridge on Hayford road before heading up to the God's Eye Town where he attacks Arya & Co.
Green: Roose Bolton
Marches south to meet Tywin at the battle of the Green Fork before returning to camp outside the Twins
White: Robb Stark
Marches south through Hag's Mire and Sevenstreams to reach the Battle of the Whispering Wood where he captures Jaime before retaking Riverrun (and likely sends forces to liberate Raventree Hall and Stone Hedge).
Homiesucc
Envoy
- Pronouns
- she/her
It's possible by now he's already at the Ruby Ford or the crossroads, but itd be better for him to be at the twins yeah
Just so this doesn't get a bit lost - I think the reduced scale plans are heading in the right direction. Over the next week or so I'm going to try and focus on the river terra, to make sure the land is ready for building.
Anything else you guys want to include or mention at all? Otherwise I'm happy to provisionally approve this.
Anything else you guys want to include or mention at all? Otherwise I'm happy to provisionally approve this.