Approved Redo Appeal: Oldflowers

[7JG7]

Hi everyone,

Please accept my apologies for submitting my initial project application before seeking a redo appeal - I got a little carried away. Anyhow, I am looking to make an appeal to redo Oldflowers. Oldflowers is located south of Highgarden, west of Hornhill, east of Woodwright and north of Hutcheson on our sever. Currently, the project is very outdated when compared to the standards of the server today. Furthermore, the lands of Oldflowers were briefly touched on during the building of Highgarden, which has resulted in a mix of terra practices in Oldflowers. I therefore think that a redo appeal is justified under clause (1) “Solidify a regional style”.

If this appeal is granted, I would love to open a discussion on my application post about my plans for the project and how they can be further tailored and perfected. Thanks for taking the time to read!

 

[EStoop]

Hey, I’m one (out of two) of the original builders of Oldflowers.

While a redo of the project does not come as a surprise to me, I must admit I feel a bit bitter by the lack of consulting with (one of) the original builder(s) of the project, especially so when that builder is still active.
Had I known an Oldflowers app was in the works, I could have informed that person I’m to some degree interested in redoing the project myself. I’m not opposed for someone else to redo it, but I’m inclined to only give “the blessing” to do so to someone who takes on Oldflowers as their first project, so that they can learn and develop themselves in the same way as I did when I took on the project as my first when I was a new builder.
Contributing to this, I feel like there are plenty of unbuild projects in the Central Reach area that require a more experienced builder, and Oldflowers is in my opinion in an unique situation as to provide a manageable but still sizeable project for inexperienced builders to build at in this area of the Reach.

As to why I think Oldflowers is a manageable project; the lands are surrounded by holdfasts and ruins on the border with Hutcheson and Woodwright, as well as one to the north as part of Highgarden. The latter one was actually intended as the new castle for Oldflowers as part of a redo application I was working on in 2020. In short, Oldflowers is surrounded by fortifications on most sides, so there is little space left to make sizeable or numerous fortifications at Oldflowers itself. With the defences of Highgarden already sufficiently tackled it also doesn’t make sense to further fortify the area with more than one (small) castle or holdfast.

As some might know, I’ve had plans to redo Oldflowers as part of the Highgarden server build back in 2020, but ended up building only the castle which is now known as hghf1 partly because Fairmarket was and still is my ongoing project. I’m inclined to finish the project myself according to the plans from 2020 (link here to the unfinished application), but I will support anyone who’s interested to take on Oldflowers as their first project.

Additionally, I think the cited redo clause is erroneous since clause 1.d, which I think is the clause being referred to here, is only intended for megaprojects and server builds, of which the momentum has long passed unless the project would be taken under the wing of Horn Hill.
However, since large parts of the project have been removed due to terraforming, the project is technically unfinished (although not abandoned). A more appropriate clause for redo would be 1.c. Whether the project is outdated or not is not a reason for redo under our current guidelines.

Kind regards,

Stoop

Edit | For whom it may concern, I managed to dig up a shitty version of the map with plans which the linked app refers to.

• Yellow: Village.
• Orange: Fields and farms and what not.
• Green: Forest.
• Red: Castle and holdfast.
• Pink: Area to give to Hutcheson for Renly's camp.

Edit 2 | Do take note the added map is a bit outdated and the pink area as well as the area along the border of Woodwright are now belonging to those projects.

 

[7JG7]

Hey, I’m one (out of two) of the original builders of Oldflowers.

While a redo of the project does not come as a surprise to me, I must admit I feel a bit bitter by the lack of consulting with (one of) the original builder(s) of the project, especially so when that builder is still active.
Had I known an Oldflowers app was in the works, I could have informed that person I’m to some degree interested in redoing the project myself. I’m not opposed for someone else to redo it, but I’m inclined to only give “the blessing” to do so to someone who takes on Oldflowers as their first project, so that they can learn and develop themselves in the same way as I did when I took on the project as my first when I was a new builder.
Contributing to this, I feel like there are plenty of unbuild projects in the Central Reach area that require a more experienced builder, and Oldflowers is in my opinion in an unique situation as to provide a manageable but still sizeable project for inexperienced builders to build at in this area of the Reach.

As to why I think Oldflowers is a manageable project; the lands are surrounded by holdfasts and ruins on the border with Hutcheson and Woodwright, as well as one to the north as part of Highgarden. The latter one was actually intended as the new castle for Oldflowers as part of a redo application I was working on in 2020. In short, Oldflowers is surrounded by fortifications on most sides, so there is little space left to make sizeable or numerous fortifications at Oldflowers itself. With the defences of Highgarden already sufficiently tackled it also doesn’t make sense to further fortify the area with more than one (small) castle or holdfast.

As some might know, I’ve had plans to redo Oldflowers as part of the Highgarden server build back in 2020, but ended up building only the castle which is now known as hghf1 partly because Fairmarket was and still is my ongoing project. I’m inclined to finish the project myself according to the plans from 2020 (link here to the unfinished application), but I will support anyone who’s interested to take on Oldflowers as their first project.

Additionally, I think the cited redo clause is erroneous since clause 1.d, which I think is the clause being referred to here, is only intended for megaprojects and server builds, of which the momentum has long passed unless the project would be taken under the wing of Horn Hill.
However, since large parts of the project have been removed due to terraforming, the project is technically unfinished (although not abandoned). A more appropriate clause for redo would be 1.c. Whether the project is outdated or not is not a reason for redo under our current guidelines.

Kind regards,

Stoop

Edit | For whom it may concern, I managed to dig up a shitty version of the map with plans which the linked app refers to.

• Yellow: Village.
• Orange: Fields and farms and what not.
• Green: Forest.
• Red: Castle and holdfast.
• Pink: Area to give to Hutcheson for Renly's camp.

Edit 2 | Do take note the added map is a bit outdated and the pink area as well as the area along the border of Woodwright are now belonging to those projects.

Hi Stoop. I apologise for the lack of consultation but I could not locate the original app on the forums and had no idea of finding out who the original builders were. I also think it would be a good project for me as I have yet to build a Reach project and it has been a few years since the post-approval of my only other project on the server.

 

[Enah]

Most projects have an article in the wiki that gives the details of construction and who built it. Also could ask older builders you silly goose. Whoever builds this, if the redo does get approved, will probably have to work with Ark, Stoop, Marg, Viserys (if vis wants to have input of course) and myself to ensure cohesion is met. And as stoop said, we did build the HF as intended to be new Oldflowers, once he was freed of FM. Which i hope is nigh. If it is allowed a redo and whoever applies i am definitely there to assist in guiding where needed, the rural planning can be especially challenging to those not accustomed to Reach Heartlands style.

 

[Margaery_Tyrell]

I think my main feedback is to emphasize more grasslands vs forest. I think we overdid the forests a tad in The Reach and the region could benefit from more open meadows for frolicking grazing. Im attempting this approach in the Upper Honeywine project a bit but im happy to help with Oldflowers

 

[DutchGuard]

I think we are in agreement that a redo is acceptable in principle.
7JG7 EStoop , if you could have a chat about how to proceed, we will support whatever agreement you come to and review an application accordingly.

From the preliminary discussion between the mods, we have two suggestions:
- The Oldflowers "castle" should not be much bigger than a fortified manor, because of the fairly large fortification to the north which was previously meant to be Oldflowers Castle. It would not make sense to have two such large fortifications so close together. The castle proposed in the application should be reduced in size. The Highgarden hunting lodge (/warp hglodge) would be a suitable scale in my opinion.
- The mods have no objection to Renly's Camp being included in this application, but have discussed its position. Some of us feel it would be better located on the river banks of the Mander, to the north near the existing fortification. This would have better access to the Rose Road and river for transporting such a large host. The settlement core of the Oldflowers land could then be shifted south.

 

[Enah]

I hope with the camp being moved it can feel like it's occupying the smallfolk's holdings and fields, and not like a dedicated camp ground such as the tourneygrounds

 

[Margaery_Tyrell]

I hope with the camp being moved it can feel like it's occupying the smallfolk's holdings and fields, and not like a dedicated camp ground such as the tourneygrounds

In Highgarden the tourney ground is supposed to be placed in boccage enclosures that were for horses previously, its all temporary structures besides the already existing horse stables made of stone.

 

[Enah]

Silly me!