Massey's Hook sub-region - Discussion Thread

[Rexstop15]

Hello everyone! With this thread I want to open a discussion/debate about the style & inspirations for the “sub-region” of Massey’s Hook in the Crownlands. Massey’s hook is a peninsula that defines the eastern extent of the Blackwater’s Bay. It is separated from Dragonstone and Driftmark to the north by the Gullet, and south of it we find Wendwater and Sweetport.

On the server there are 4 houses located in this peninsula:

-House Bar Emmon of Sharp Point (not started)
-House Massey of Stonedance (WIP)
-House Follard (finished) – (very outdated)
-House Chyttering (finished) – (very outdated)



With this threat my intention is to try to reach an agreement so we can have a consistent style all along the Hook. After talking to Guil, our idea is to get inspiration from places in Bretagne (France), Cornwall (England), and the Channel Isles. And to a lesser extent also from places in Wales, Scotland, and Normandy (France).
The peninsula needs lots of terra work, and the idea is to reflect the action of the weather and the ocean on it better. According to the canon this area of the Narrow Sea is very prone to storms, so this needs to be reflected in one way or another.
In regard to housing style, I propose the use of stone as the main material. The land is very rocky and even though wood is available it probably wouldn’t be the main material used in construction.
Please let me know what you all think, and feel free to propose anything else or add other stuff!!

 

[Jakethesnake8_8]

Heya Rex! Love the Welsh inspiration! I may have some photos from the St Fagan’s Welsh museum of life that could be useful. Lots of Welsh homes are built in stone, something that would be useful as an inspiration, given Massey’s has minimal forest cover from what I can see. I’ve also got some Welsh castle images, so let me know if those would be useful as well!

Edit: Also an interesting idea with the terrain is to include the rain shadow effect. This happens when one side of a mountain range (the side facing the open ocean) is more forested as a result of warm sea air and storms hitting the slopes. As the storms travel over land and start precipitating, the clouds get smaller and by the time they pass over the ridge of the range, there’s very little moisture left for the other side. This usually results in less foliage growth.

 

[FD001__]

Criccieth castle in the north of Wales, could be good inspo?

 

[Rexstop15]

Heya Rex! Love the Welsh inspiration! I may have some photos from the St Fagan’s Welsh museum of life that could be useful. Lots of Welsh homes are built in stone, something that would be useful as an inspiration, given Massey’s has minimal forest cover from what I can see. I’ve also got some Welsh castle images, so let me know if those would be useful as well!

Edit: Also an interesting idea with the terrain is to include the rain shadow effect. This happens when one side of a mountain range (the side facing the open ocean) is more forested as a result of warm sea air and storms hitting the slopes. As the storms travel over land and start precipitating, the clouds get smaller and by the time they pass over the ridge of the range, there’s very little moisture left for the other side. This usually results in less foliage growth.

Yeah, I think that showing the rain shadow effect would be a nice touch. Regarding the forest cover, it will very probably need to be increased quite a bit. At least on the eastern side, facing the Narrow Sea. Please sent me anything you want, either via discord or through here!

 

[FD001__]

Yeah, I think that showing the rain shadow effect would be a nice touch. Regarding the forest cover, it will very probably need to be increased quite a bit. At least on the eastern side, facing the Narrow Sea. Please sent me anything you want, either via discord or through here!

I think the forest cover on the eastern side could be similar to the temperate rainforest on the west coast of Scotland and parts of Wales - very old growth that could be like holdover pockets from the massive forest that existed before from the Kingswood down into the Rainwood. Agriculture cut this forest off from the Kingswood and northern Stormlands but the forest is still left over around Follard/Stonedance?.



An image from one of these forests in SW Scotland.

 

[Rexstop15]

I think the forest cover on the eastern side could be similar to the temperate rainforest on the west coast of Scotland and parts of Wales - very old growth that could be like holdover pockets from the massive forest that existed before from the Kingswood down into the Rainwood. Agriculture cut this forest off from the Kingswood and northern Stormlands but the forest is still left over around Follard/Stonedance?.

View attachment 12859

An image from one of these forests in SW Scotland.

OMG! LOVE THAT!

 

[Tobi]

I think the forest cover on the eastern side could be similar to the temperate rainforest on the west coast of Scotland and parts of Wales - very old growth that could be like holdover pockets from the massive forest that existed before from the Kingswood down into the Rainwood. Agriculture cut this forest off from the Kingswood and northern Stormlands but the forest is still left over around Follard/Stonedance?.

View attachment 12859

An image from one of these forests in SW Scotland.

I also got such kind of forest in sweet so it could stretch from the coast into the south of Massey’s Hook. Really like the idea.
Also the whole area has a very simmilar kind of style if you compare it to Sweet.

 

[FD001__]

I put in a block request for Cushion Moss to connect to wood blocks btw, so you could have really mossy old trees in these primordial forests.

 

[Rexstop15]

I also got such kind of forest in sweet so it could stretch from the coast into the south of Massey’s Hook. Really like the idea.
Also the whole area has a very simmilar kind of style if you compare it to Sweet.

Idk if Sweet would retain as much humidity as the Hook, because it is much lower in elevation. But yeah, probably it has some remaining patches around.

 

[Jakethesnake8_8]

I think the forest cover on the eastern side could be similar to the temperate rainforest on the west coast of Scotland and parts of Wales - very old growth that could be like holdover pockets from the massive forest that existed before from the Kingswood down into the Rainwood. Agriculture cut this forest off from the Kingswood and northern Stormlands but the forest is still left over around Follard/Stonedance?.

View attachment 12859

An image from one of these forests in SW Scotland.

The BoulderMoss schem would work really well for boulders in that style of forest! I’m sure we could come up with some schems for fallen trees and stumps with that degree of moss.

 

[Tobi]

I just thought that the winds from the the sea bring the humid conditions.
Red: Strong winds
Green: Very humid forest
Also the humid forest will be a bit elevated because there will be hills.

 

[Emoticone11]

I think Cornwall is a great inspiration for Massey's hook both in terms of terrain and regional style! In case it's helpful to anyone, here's a massive album of photos that I took while in Cornwall (unfortunately the order got completely scrambled):

https://imgur.com/a/8PSll1c

 

[AerioOndos]

I think the forest cover on the eastern side could be similar to the temperate rainforest on the west coast of Scotland and parts of Wales - very old growth that could be like holdover pockets from the massive forest that existed before from the Kingswood down into the Rainwood. Agriculture cut this forest off from the Kingswood and northern Stormlands but the forest is still left over around Follard/Stonedance?.

View attachment 12859

An image from one of these forests in SW Scotland.

Forest like this should be left on land with little economic potential, as it is irl. Celtic Rainforest/Atlantic Rainforest are mostly left on land that you couldn't grow crops on or graze livestock well and the wood was too warped or twisted to make good boards. Imo this is how it should be for any Atlantic Rainforest inspired Old Growth forest outside of the Kingswood and Rainwood, which are the last large primeval forests in the south. Any other pocket should be small remnants that aren't large enough to qualify as a full blown forest.

 

[Guillaaard]

I think Cornwall is a great inspiration for Massey's hook both in terms of terrain and regional style! In case it's helpful to anyone, here's a massive album of photos that I took while in Cornwall (unfortunately the order got completely scrambled):

https://imgur.com/a/8PSll1c

thoses are beautiful inspirations emote !

 

[FD001__]

Forest like this should be left on land with little economic potential, as it is irl. Celtic Rainforest/Atlantic Rainforest are mostly left on land that you couldn't grow crops on or graze livestock well and the wood was too warped or twisted to make good boards. Imo this is how it should be for any Atlantic Rainforest inspired Old Growth forest outside of the Kingswood and Rainwood, which are the last large primeval forests in the south. Any other pocket should be small remnants that aren't large enough to qualify as a full blown forest.

Yeah, I was thinking only small pockets away from settlements, up one the mountainous 'spine' of Massey's Hook.

I was looking at the area around Kintyre in the SW of Scotland, as it's a large peninsula (looks a bit dodgy tho o_0) and you see the dense old forests around there as well as other parts of the SW/Argyll.


Of course this is further north than what Massey's Hook would be at in server, so the climate doesn't correlate too much. But worth looking into imo.

Some images of Tarbert Castle enclosed too for inspo.

 

[EStoop]

The history of the Hook gives us a nice opportunity to portray differences in architecture between the original inhabitants of the area (Massey and other First Men houses) and Andal settlers (Bar Emmon for example). While the differences would be minor on the grand scale of things, defensive structures could reflect this in the same way as the Normans introduced their specific type of keep and general castle layout.

 

[Rexstop15]

Hello everyone! Today I wanted to open a conversation again about vegetation and plant species on Massey's Hook. As we agreed on this thread a few weeks ago, inspo for the Hook will come from places in England, North-West France, etc (read above). I assume vegetation on the region should be the typical of these areas too. After a bit of searching, I propose the following for the area:

Main Bushes/flowers: Cornish Heath, Bluebells, Gorse, Ferns, Brakens, Bilberries, Holies,

Main Trees: Oaks, Elms, Beeches, Yews, Hazels, Alders, Scots Pine, Aspens, Maples, Chestnuts, Willows, Holm Oaks, Black Poplars.
+lots of moss xd

Let me know what you all think and if any should be added or removed. -.Rex

 

[Jakethesnake8_8]

Hello everyone! Today I wanted to open a conversation again about vegetation and plant species on Massey's Hook. As we agreed on this thread a few weeks ago, inspo for the Hook will come from places in England, North-West France, etc (read above). I assume vegetation on the region should be the typical of these areas too. After a bit of searching, I propose the following for the area:

Main Bushes/flowers: Cornish Heath, Bluebells, Gorse, Ferns, Brakens, Bilberries, Holies,

Main Trees: Oaks, Elms, Beeches, Yews, Hazels, Alders, Scots Pine, Aspens, Maples, Chestnuts, Willows, Holm Oaks, Black Poplars.

Let me know what you all think and if any should be added or removed. -.Rex

I'd remove Holm Oaks, they are a primarily mediterranean species. You oaks should be on the small side, and really only hardy variations of white oak can survive well enough near saltwater. I'd also remove willows, as they're more found around freshwater. The rest seem okay to me, but I'm no expert xD

 

[Rexstop15]

The Fourth Blackfyre Rebellion & Massey's Hook:

Hi guys, I’m back in this thread because I’ve found this theory on reddit about the Blackfyres and Massey’s Hook (not my theory) that I’d like to discuss in here to hear your opinion:


The below two quotes are all the official info we have on the Fourth Blackfyre Rebellion:

“His rule was also quickly tested by those whose affairs he had meddled in too often as a prince, attempting to reduce their rights and privileges. Nor had the Blackfyre threat ended with the death of Aenys Blackfyre; Bloodraven's infamous betrayal had only hardened the enmity of the exiles across the narrow sea. In 236 AC, as a cruel six-year-long winter drew to a close, the Fourth Blackfyre Rebellion saw the self-styled King Daemon III Blackfyre, son of Haegon and grandson of Daemon I, cross the narrow sea with Bittersteel and the Golden Company at his back, in a fresh attempt to seize the Iron Throne.

The invaders landed on Massey's Hook, south of Blackwater Bay, but few rallied to their banners. King Aegon V himself rode out to meet them, with his three sons by his side. In the Battle of Wendwater Bridge, the Blackfyres suffered a shattering defeat, and Daemon III was slain by the Kingsguard knight Ser Duncan the Tall, the hedge knight for whom "Egg" had served as a squire”

-TWOIAF, The Targaryen Kings: Aegon V


“In 236 AC, the pretender Daemon Blackfyre, Third of His Name, crossed the narrow sea and landed upon Massey's Hook with Bittersteel and the Golden Company, intent on taking the Iron Throne. King Aegon V summoned leal lords from all across the Seven Kingdoms to oppose him, and the Fourth Blackfyre Rebellion began.
It ended far more quickly than the pretender might have wished, at the Battle of Wendwater Bridge. Afterward, the corpses of the Black Dragon's slain choked the Wendwater and sent it overflowing its banks. The royalists, in turn, lost fewer than a hundred men...but amongst them was Ser Tion Lannister, heir to Casterly Rock.”

-TWOIAF, The Westerlands: House Lannister Under the Dragons


Seems pretty dumb, for a seasoned commander like Aegon "Bittersteel" Rivers to just invade with little/no support. Yet they chose to invade on a piece of land in the Crownlands that was nowhere near most of their potential allies.

Let's look back to the year 184 AC after the death of the Aegon IV:

“He paid the dowry that Aegon had promised to the Archon of Tyrosh, thereby seeing his half-brother Daemon Blackfyre wed to Rohanne of Tyrosh as Aegon had desired, for all that Ser Daemon was only four-and-ten. On their wedding day, he granted Daemon a tract of land near the Blackwater, with the right to raise a castle.”

-TWOIAF, The Targaryen Kings: Daeron II


This is no guarantee it is on Massey's Hook, but the Hook is south of the Bay (not the Rush). This means that Daemon III was potentially invading near where his ancestors established their House. Meaning that he likely heard stories about a location in this area from his father/uncles growing up. It is possible that the reason the Fourth Blackfyre Rebellion took place on Massey's Hook is because the tract of land given to Daemon I Blackfyre was located in that area. This would have symbolic value, making the area somewhat of a "monument to the Black Dragon" similar to the Redgrass Fields.

What do you think? Does this make sense to you?​

 

[Antony]

I dont think that the Hook had any significance to the Blackfyres in the sense that they resided there or anything. The Blackfyres before, beeing Royal Bastards would have resided in the Red Keep along with the rest of their family. Some sort of a monument where the battle occured would be nice, but I doubt Daemon I had a home there.

Maybe tho, they decided to invade from there bc the Hook is a place where they thought theyd have some initial support from the local Lords.