[LOCKED] Oldtown: Battle Island

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EStoop

Knight of Fairmarket
This thread is for discussion about the plans regarding Battle Island in Oldtown.
The top post (this one) will be updated with plans and whatnot regarding the build.

Project lead: Howy

Information
Project document
Canon
Inspiration

Builds
  • The Hightower, serverbuild will start xx-xx-xxxx at xx:xx XXX. Lead: Howy probably.
  • Whatever, blablabla ...
Plans
I have no idea.
 

EStoop

Knight of Fairmarket
I decided to state some concerns about the Hightower as it stands now on 06-03-2018 or, if you're American, 03-06-2018. Concerns stated in this post are both based on the current status of the build or about things I think might become an issue at a later point in the design progress.

In general
The Hightower is an ancient structure, that has evolved from a simple wooden lighthouse that couldn't be lived in to the highest tower known to man. Over the years, the tower as we know it has been raised or rebuilt a couple of times as well.

The foundation of the tower is a square labyrinthine fortification of unknown origin. It would make sense to build a square tower on said foundation, rather than round (for comments about the Ted Nasmith drawing, go the "The Ted Nasmith drawing" later in this wall of text). One way or another, the original (probably labyrinthine) entrance to this fortification has to be incorperated into the current castle.

To be able to carry the weight of itself, the lower tiers of the tower need to have insanely thick walls. I'm not talking 3 blocks thick here, but at least 5 or (preferably) more. It's unlikely that the upper tiers of the tower are carried by the outer walls of the tiers below that, so there would be multiple heavy structures in the tower's interior as well.

The tower functions as a defence of the harbour of the city, as well as the residence of the noble family that rules it. Canon indicates that Battle Island, and with it the Hightower, is very well defendable. This suggest that the Hightower has defensive attributes; thick walls, small-ish windows, battlements etc.. Overly large windows in particular would harm it's construction and make it vulnerable to projectiles. The structural load on the highest tiers of the towers make it possible to have a lighter construction there, and make larger windows, thinner walls etc., and make it a nice place to be. The lower you get in the tower though, the more it's going to suck to be there.

Compared to what is present now, I'm not seeing a lot of elements from this train of thought. Therefore, this post.

The Ted Nasmith drawing
As far as I know, the Ted Nasmith is a huge inspiration. Over the past few weeks I have seen 7 tiers and a round shape. None of this is canon, and I personally think it's complete bullshit to incorperate those elements. I know he made the drawing with GRRM looking over his shoulder, but it is still an artistic rendition of a building described in the books. A round tower is stupid due to the square foundation that it has, 7 tiers is stupid due to the multiple times it has been made higher.

The current style
As it stands now, it looks like the Hightower is going to be really fancy, intricate and richly decorated piece of art. Let's not forget that it is a highly defensible structure. I think a minimalistic exterior would be more realistic. We're dealing with a coastal climate here, lots of salt and even more wind. Statues and other artistic/decorative elements would be worn down in no time, and the height of the building does not make it easy to be replaced.

As for the interior, that could be somewhat fancy for the higher tiers, but there is no need to make the areas not destined as living quarters, guest quarters or anything else that might be used by nobility overly comfortable, pretty or impressive. The amount of gold used in the current interiors is insane. For the interiors I would go with a less intricate style as well.

I know these people are supposed to be really rich, but building towers like the Hightower without all the extra decoration isn't exactly cheap in the first place.

The current tower

About 5% of the interiors are planned and there are already 2 halls and a vestibule (with no real function) that are big- and situated low enough to make the tower collapse on itself.

There is a lift system that would require anything transported with them to be transported to the walls of the blackfort, hauled up a little bit only to go inside of the tower, where it goes higher. Why isn't there a system of multiple lifts in the centre of the tower, going from the bottom all the way to the top? It is common for skyscrapers or any large building to have a solid core to ensure structural stability. Usually these cores are used for lifts, staircases and (although not really appliable here) toilet groups and utilities.

The throne in the large hall is over the top. They are not (and haven't been for a long time) kings, there is no need for a throne this intricate. If I'm not mistaken there used to be rules in place dictating what and what could not be worn or styled by certain levels of nobility, and I'm sure that having a throne more fabulous than Elton John would fall into that.

Metallic roofs can't deal with smoke/fire very well (I can source it but I'd rather not take that effort, it's stated in one of the textbooks I have regarding building materials). Also, metallic roofs would be oxidised, and when using the bronze block it would be the greenish colour. Personally I think a stone roof would be a more sensible choice (yes I know, boring).

Towers. Honestly who puts towers on a round building? I would get it if it was square, but it's round. Towers would completely ruin the benifits of being round.

The current tower is enormous enough to make the relatively large island it is standing on look like a mere pebble. I know the tower is supposed to be giant, but toning it down just a couple of blocks would do wonders to it's proportions. What do you need all the space for anyway?

Conclusion
In short, I think the tower has a couple of issues. These are the main ones:
  • The construction is unrealistic,
  • It's too large,
  • It's too intricate, fancy and decorated
 

Emileld

Messenger
Guest
Typical Estoop, creating a thread no-one asked for just so he can post on it.

I'd just like to support the point about the interiors and furnishing; right now, what we have is what I'd call nouveau riche furnishing, which is hardly befitting of one of Westeros' most ancient families. It's somewhat trumpian, if you see what I mean. Classy furnishing, with way less gold, in the style of Highgarden, would be way better. You don't need to plaster gold on every wall to show that a house is rich.
 

Enah

Skinchanger
Hey, though the use of “stupid” as a verb is over used in this thread, the interior is a bit much. I enjoy the arches and the strong look of the hall but not the gold which lends a very 19th century Tzarist Russia feel to it. I also don’t approve of a canopied throne that is ripped from the Vatican. Having mentioned THICKER THANTHICK walls multiple times for the towers base I agree on that as a prime feature. I also have never liked a round Hightower. I always imagined it being added on and such around the main structure for extra space, giving it more of a fantasy feel (in addition to its currently crazy height in the books) my idea of having courtly and ceremonial rooms added on to the superstructure’s exterior and then having a palace or grouping of small palatial houses for the Hightower nobility and such would provide more space for living areas. Surely they wouldn’t only live in the shadowy halls of the Hightower, would they?
 
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AerioOndos

Donkey Lord
Staff member
Pronouns
they/them
Probably many of the nobility would live in the city below where they could have less vertigo. Nobles would have at least some kind of lodging there.
 

Howy

Royal Messenger
I will be creating an official thread for Battle Isle (i.e. Hightower) discussion later this evening AEST. The thread will be where everyone can put forward their own test or Hightower ideas in their own posts. I will not be selecting a single one, but rather adopting multiple elements from the different suggestions in a manner that they fit together and create the best Hightower possible (doing my best to avoid an ugly Frankenstein's monster of ideas).

I'd ask that any opinions, etc, be directed to that thread. I am even happy to have whole tower proposals. However, know that I will adopt elements and not necessarily choose a single tower. It is possible, for example, that I like [Player 1]'s tower shape and tier-leveling, but also like the beacon design of [Player 2]. I will incorporate both to the best of my ability, with added changes to make sure they don't overtly conflict in architectural style, etc.

I recommend anyone with specific ideas collect them together and dump them into a single post. I'd ask in the new post people be accepting and respectful that there are different views on certain topics, especially the realism of our builds and how 'large' or 'small' they should be.

For now I am asking that, until this evening when I finally have time to make the official thread, builders hold off making comments or their own threads/posts. In accordance with this, and for the sake of consistency, thread locked.

Note: The post is now up, and can be found here.
 
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