Hey everyone,
Sorry about the delay in putting this out there. I know some people have been eagerly waiting since it was mentioned in the last Rookery issue. I ask that you please read the following in full before replying, though.
Why a KL remaster?
The motivation for such an effort was given recently in the last issue of the Rookery (link), so I won't belabour it here. However, the word "redo" always tends to pop up in contexts like this, so I want to stress a few points on that: KL is not going to be redone. Not now, not 2 years from now, not 5 years from now. It's simply not realistic. Old KL was redone for obvious reasons - it was a product of the old map, before any of the new blocks added by the custom launcher, it was mostly done without any focus on realism and consequently had really bizarre material uses and joke professions, really bad plotting, etc. By contrast, pretty much the only thing holding current KL back is an enumerable set of outdated aesthetic practices (logs in houses, messy gradients, etc.). Secondly, multiple years' worth of the crystallized efforts of hundreds of people on such an impressive project cannot simply be thanos-snapped away, and in my honest opinion, it's a bit disrespectful to throw around the idea of redoing stuff so lightly, as people on the server are sometimes prone to do.
At the same time, it is true that the KL style in many areas has dated. Some of the aesthetic practices used heavily in the beginning of the city (such as logs in houses) were recognized as bad even by the time we started with KL sprawl (which tends to be much more up-to-date for the most part). However, by the time KL was finished, I don't think anyone had the energy to go back and fix those issues.
Now that it's been a while, and we're in a bit of a limbo in terms of open city builds, I think it's as good a time as any to remedy these issues. As any new builders could probably attest to, we've had occasional shortages of building locations recently despite an influx of approved applications, and building small farm houses can tend to get boring after a while. It's a good practice to always have a reliable town/city build open for both newer builders, and anybody who's just in the mood to build a house. Since our style has become very solidified in the last few years (with only the occasional 'trend' shaking things up), I think whatever we can bring up-to-date should continue to be up-to-date well into the future. Since KL is our most impressive project and the spotlight of our server, I think any such effort would be well worth it.
A different kind of update...
Understandably, there have been some concerns that, given a fixed pool of active builders at any time, an effort like this would distract from working on genuinely new projects, such as Sunspear, Oldtown, etc. I want to try to assuage those concerns here.
The KL remaster is planned to use a method completely different to any updates that we've done in the past. Specifically, we're going to copy segments of the city over to Test, where the updates will be done, before copying it back over to the production world. Crucially, the actual version of KL on the production server is not affected at all during this process, so there's no "rush" to work on any particular section - guests exploring KL will see a completed city at any given time. In principle, the remaster can stretch as long as we like, with the KL on the production map only becoming better over time.
Therefore, the remaster becomes like a "background process" rather than a "foreground process", to borrow from computer terminology. As soon as there's a "more pressing" project such as Sunspear, we can divert people away from the remaster and towards that new project. Once that new project is complete, we can then fall back on the remaster and not have to worry about a sudden shortage of plots. It's not intended to distract us from expanding our efforts into new directions, but rather just to provide builders with a reliable effort to work on in the interims between such server projects, while still having an important and rewarding impact on the main map. The only active effort that would be required is on the part of the person who oversees a given segment of the remaster.
The closest precedent to this is probably the work that has been done in Cape Kraken (which was started by carcinogenius last year during a similar time of new builders outstripping open building areas). A number of mods and builders contributed to rolling out hamlet plans, and people were able to contribute towards making that whole region more immersive. However, it hasn't interfered with more active server projects, like Highgarden.
Still, isn't this just putting a band-aid on it, rather than fixing the underlying issues?
In theory, the only things that can't be changed with the proposed method are the macroscopic elements of the city, namely roads, sewers, locations of the major hills, walls, etc. Things that are interconnected across multiple regions. Any "local" issues (such as bad plotting) can in principle be completely fixed as long as one is careful to copy sufficiently large regions. The extent to which we address underlying plotting, versus just updating facades/interiors, is probably something we want to play by ear. I do want to address a couple specific things that I've heard related to this point, though:
"KL needs more diagonal plots to be up-to-date!"
While it's true that diagonal plots have become more popular in our style since KL proper, I also think this argument is a bit overblown. It would be nice to add a few more diagonals here and there (particularly along diagonal roads), but I don't think it's necessary to go anywhere near the extent of the diagonal plotting of recent projects like Weeping Town. Diagonals could also start to look overwhelming if used too much in a dense city like KL, whereas row-aligned houses give a bit more regularity. Basically, I don't think lack of diagonals is a significant factor contributing to the datedness of KL much at all - just a minor thing that would be nice to address in some areas.
"There should be more agricultural areas in KL/larger yard space"
I've seen this a couple times, I think based on our plans for Oldtown (where there are some rural areas that have been incorporated into the city walls) and to a lesser extent White Harbor. However, it's worth pointing out that KL is a very different city from both of these. All of the canon that I can recall off the top of my head seems to point to a very dense, overpopulated city - e.g., the hovels stacked up against the inner city walls, the historical fires, etc. I picture KL as a whole being a bit more dependent on surrounding farms (like Rosby) compared to a city like Oldtown. Some more variance in house density and larger yards in some areas might still be warranted - and can be addressed locally in particular regions that we updates - but I don't think it makes much sense to base this on what's been done at other towns or cities with different contexts.
Who will be able to lead a segment?
Initially, I think it makes sense for mods to plan segments, so we can get a flow down and figure out possible challenges that might come up. Then we might create a process for any builders who might want to get involved. However, the number of segments open at any time should be strictly limited (probably to 1 at first), with each section needing to be finalized, post-approved, and copied back over before a new one enters the works.
We will need help coming up with example houses in the updated style, and will call on builders to help with this as soon as this is kicked off.
Also, though some of this still needs to be ironed out, we aim to keep the process of determining what parts of a segment need to be wiped/redone, updated, or kept mostly the same fairly transparent, and to give people the chance to give their input first.
Will the old segments be backed up?
I think this is up for discussion. There should be room in Test to store all of KL if we wanted to, though I'm not sure if it's necessary. While I built a large number of houses in KL, I only remember a small number of them which I spent particular effort on, and wouldn't mind if most of my others are wiped. For anyone else who feels the same way, a mod or editor can backup those particular houses upon request before a segment is done (assuming the house in question isn't marked as minor update only).
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That's all I have to say for now (though chances are I forgot something I wanted to say writing all that up).
Now, I've made what I think is a strong case for kicking off a remaster, but I understand that some builders have had some reservations about it since the announcement was made in the Rookery. The mod response (including on my part) in terms of preparing the first segment has also been a bit non-committal, but partially this is just a result of business. I wouldn't say that the remaster is 100% set in stone at this point - I'm fine calling it off for now if most of the community finds it unnecessary or misguided - but I know that some people were also looking forward to learning more about it. Hopefully this post helps give a better idea of what exactly is being proposed. Feel free to discuss amongst yourselves!
Sorry about the delay in putting this out there. I know some people have been eagerly waiting since it was mentioned in the last Rookery issue. I ask that you please read the following in full before replying, though.
Why a KL remaster?
The motivation for such an effort was given recently in the last issue of the Rookery (link), so I won't belabour it here. However, the word "redo" always tends to pop up in contexts like this, so I want to stress a few points on that: KL is not going to be redone. Not now, not 2 years from now, not 5 years from now. It's simply not realistic. Old KL was redone for obvious reasons - it was a product of the old map, before any of the new blocks added by the custom launcher, it was mostly done without any focus on realism and consequently had really bizarre material uses and joke professions, really bad plotting, etc. By contrast, pretty much the only thing holding current KL back is an enumerable set of outdated aesthetic practices (logs in houses, messy gradients, etc.). Secondly, multiple years' worth of the crystallized efforts of hundreds of people on such an impressive project cannot simply be thanos-snapped away, and in my honest opinion, it's a bit disrespectful to throw around the idea of redoing stuff so lightly, as people on the server are sometimes prone to do.
At the same time, it is true that the KL style in many areas has dated. Some of the aesthetic practices used heavily in the beginning of the city (such as logs in houses) were recognized as bad even by the time we started with KL sprawl (which tends to be much more up-to-date for the most part). However, by the time KL was finished, I don't think anyone had the energy to go back and fix those issues.
Now that it's been a while, and we're in a bit of a limbo in terms of open city builds, I think it's as good a time as any to remedy these issues. As any new builders could probably attest to, we've had occasional shortages of building locations recently despite an influx of approved applications, and building small farm houses can tend to get boring after a while. It's a good practice to always have a reliable town/city build open for both newer builders, and anybody who's just in the mood to build a house. Since our style has become very solidified in the last few years (with only the occasional 'trend' shaking things up), I think whatever we can bring up-to-date should continue to be up-to-date well into the future. Since KL is our most impressive project and the spotlight of our server, I think any such effort would be well worth it.
A different kind of update...
Understandably, there have been some concerns that, given a fixed pool of active builders at any time, an effort like this would distract from working on genuinely new projects, such as Sunspear, Oldtown, etc. I want to try to assuage those concerns here.
The KL remaster is planned to use a method completely different to any updates that we've done in the past. Specifically, we're going to copy segments of the city over to Test, where the updates will be done, before copying it back over to the production world. Crucially, the actual version of KL on the production server is not affected at all during this process, so there's no "rush" to work on any particular section - guests exploring KL will see a completed city at any given time. In principle, the remaster can stretch as long as we like, with the KL on the production map only becoming better over time.
Therefore, the remaster becomes like a "background process" rather than a "foreground process", to borrow from computer terminology. As soon as there's a "more pressing" project such as Sunspear, we can divert people away from the remaster and towards that new project. Once that new project is complete, we can then fall back on the remaster and not have to worry about a sudden shortage of plots. It's not intended to distract us from expanding our efforts into new directions, but rather just to provide builders with a reliable effort to work on in the interims between such server projects, while still having an important and rewarding impact on the main map. The only active effort that would be required is on the part of the person who oversees a given segment of the remaster.
The closest precedent to this is probably the work that has been done in Cape Kraken (which was started by carcinogenius last year during a similar time of new builders outstripping open building areas). A number of mods and builders contributed to rolling out hamlet plans, and people were able to contribute towards making that whole region more immersive. However, it hasn't interfered with more active server projects, like Highgarden.
Still, isn't this just putting a band-aid on it, rather than fixing the underlying issues?
In theory, the only things that can't be changed with the proposed method are the macroscopic elements of the city, namely roads, sewers, locations of the major hills, walls, etc. Things that are interconnected across multiple regions. Any "local" issues (such as bad plotting) can in principle be completely fixed as long as one is careful to copy sufficiently large regions. The extent to which we address underlying plotting, versus just updating facades/interiors, is probably something we want to play by ear. I do want to address a couple specific things that I've heard related to this point, though:
"KL needs more diagonal plots to be up-to-date!"
While it's true that diagonal plots have become more popular in our style since KL proper, I also think this argument is a bit overblown. It would be nice to add a few more diagonals here and there (particularly along diagonal roads), but I don't think it's necessary to go anywhere near the extent of the diagonal plotting of recent projects like Weeping Town. Diagonals could also start to look overwhelming if used too much in a dense city like KL, whereas row-aligned houses give a bit more regularity. Basically, I don't think lack of diagonals is a significant factor contributing to the datedness of KL much at all - just a minor thing that would be nice to address in some areas.
"There should be more agricultural areas in KL/larger yard space"
I've seen this a couple times, I think based on our plans for Oldtown (where there are some rural areas that have been incorporated into the city walls) and to a lesser extent White Harbor. However, it's worth pointing out that KL is a very different city from both of these. All of the canon that I can recall off the top of my head seems to point to a very dense, overpopulated city - e.g., the hovels stacked up against the inner city walls, the historical fires, etc. I picture KL as a whole being a bit more dependent on surrounding farms (like Rosby) compared to a city like Oldtown. Some more variance in house density and larger yards in some areas might still be warranted - and can be addressed locally in particular regions that we updates - but I don't think it makes much sense to base this on what's been done at other towns or cities with different contexts.
Who will be able to lead a segment?
Initially, I think it makes sense for mods to plan segments, so we can get a flow down and figure out possible challenges that might come up. Then we might create a process for any builders who might want to get involved. However, the number of segments open at any time should be strictly limited (probably to 1 at first), with each section needing to be finalized, post-approved, and copied back over before a new one enters the works.
We will need help coming up with example houses in the updated style, and will call on builders to help with this as soon as this is kicked off.
Also, though some of this still needs to be ironed out, we aim to keep the process of determining what parts of a segment need to be wiped/redone, updated, or kept mostly the same fairly transparent, and to give people the chance to give their input first.
Will the old segments be backed up?
I think this is up for discussion. There should be room in Test to store all of KL if we wanted to, though I'm not sure if it's necessary. While I built a large number of houses in KL, I only remember a small number of them which I spent particular effort on, and wouldn't mind if most of my others are wiped. For anyone else who feels the same way, a mod or editor can backup those particular houses upon request before a segment is done (assuming the house in question isn't marked as minor update only).
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
That's all I have to say for now (though chances are I forgot something I wanted to say writing all that up).
Now, I've made what I think is a strong case for kicking off a remaster, but I understand that some builders have had some reservations about it since the announcement was made in the Rookery. The mod response (including on my part) in terms of preparing the first segment has also been a bit non-committal, but partially this is just a result of business. I wouldn't say that the remaster is 100% set in stone at this point - I'm fine calling it off for now if most of the community finds it unnecessary or misguided - but I know that some people were also looking forward to learning more about it. Hopefully this post helps give a better idea of what exactly is being proposed. Feel free to discuss amongst yourselves!
