Immersion Build: Abandoned Holdfast

[Homiesucc]

Abandoned Holdfast by Homiesucc

https://imgur.com/a/NJApOtD

Introduction
Hi, I'm applying to build the abandoned holdfast camped at by Tyrion, Jon and Benjen on their way to the wall in the early chapters of the first book. It has a semi-canonical location on the AWOIAF app. There is no information on which house may have built the holdfast, only that it is in a bad state of decay.

resume
/warp goodeham1 (nearing final stages of completion) (mini)
farmhouse at /warp lonmouth (mini)
/warp storkgate (not a mini but I still like it)

Canon
"they stayed a night behind the wooden walls of a forest holdfast"
"The shelters had been thrown up against the tumbledown wall of a long-abandoned holdfast, a shield against the wind"
"Jon had seen an abandoned holdfast once, a drear place where nothing moved but the wind and the stones kept silent about whatever people had lived there. Winterfell reminded him of that tonight"
Location (see first image of the imgur)

Society
It is never stated if there is a town surrounding the holdfast, however I don't want to decide that for whoever takes up the house flint project, as it is in their lands. If anything however, I believe the holdfast and surrounding village would have been abandoned due to wildling attacks that made it past Umber lands. Also I think that if there were a town nearby to the holdfast, it would be in use. Any input on this is appreciated though

Inspiration
Old Inverlochy castle - Scotland (region suggested by Emot)

My plan is for the hf to be smaller than the real castle, but large enough to hold a camp inside, located just off of the kingsroad just south of /warp frostlodgeinn

I'll start testing if people dont think this is a dumb idea lol

 

[lemonbear]

I think this is a great idea! I definitely want to see some tests first.

 

[AerioOndos]

Similarly would like to see some tests! Sounds like a brilliant idea.
As its being mentioned as deserted, then likely there is no town around it. There are later mentions about abandoned 'flint towers' further north of that point when the mountains are visible from the Kingsroad. Additionally, I'm not sure the quotes are all talking about the same place, though I currently cannot check my copy.

 

[Gealrüable]

Not sure what the books say about it, but considering its near the road, lots of travelers probably use it as shelter, I think the build should reflect that. (e.g. firewood safely stored, some simple semi-permanent shelter built out of the ruins, etc.)

 

[Homiesucc]

https://imgur.com/a/GFh1TLA

Test done on my plot. A general complaint is the square nature of the castle but that's just how the real castle is and how scottish castles are in general, a lot of what I've seen are square or rectangular. The more I think about it its a problem with siberian castles too.

 

[AerioOndos]

hmm. There's no mention in the lore of them having to enter into a fort or holdfast. Instead, its just a 'tumbledown wall' used as a shelter and Tyrion thinks of it as a 'camp' not about approaching a small castle. He is also able to see Yoren skinning a squirrel and smell and see cooking going on before they actually join the group, which implies that the dwarf and Jon are approaching from the shelter side and that there aren't other walls high enough to block his sight, which is at a lower level than most people.
Additionally, the shelters are said to have been set up against the wall rather than built within walls. I'd suggest making the walls considerably more damaged and the holdfast smaller, potentially more like refuge forts which had no towers and were just stone walls really.

Now, I'm not suggesting you make it 1:1 of it, but how An Grainan of Aileach in Inishow (Ireland) has those step like tiers leading down from the walls might be an interesting way to do the wall, but at a far more ruined state ofc.
That's my main point. While your test is good Homie, it might fit better as a holdfast in the Gift, rather than as the 'long-abandoned holdfast' that Tyrion, Yoren, Jon and Benjen stayed at on their way north.

The Gift has some pretty good farmland and once had enough people to support quite a number of holdfasts. So maybe talk to Cash about where you could use this test and make another that would be more applicable to the Canon for the tumbledown wall holdfast from AGOT.

 

[Homiesucc]

https://imgur.com/a/pfkYAsy

ruin test suggested by endy

 

[Gealrüable]

these walls are much too thin, high and uneven imo

Here's how hadrians wall looks like in parts where it wasnt cleaned my modern archeologists:

Spoiler: Without snow

#

Spoiler: With snow (though not much)

As one can see very well on these last two pictures, the walls stops the snow from blowing over the fields,
That's probably the main draw of the place as shelter for stupid tourists wanting to piss of the wall -there's a lot less snow at the place.
I suggest you make the walls very low and thick, not much stone visible under all the snow.

Thin, high parts of the wall don't tend to survive very long, higher portions in ruins usually are only seen with very thick corner supports.
What does survive is the thick base (as in hadrians wall), so ruins are often surprisingly even and straight.

 

[AerioOndos]

That's brilliant advice Gealruable and wall thickness was what I was also trying to suggest with that Irish Dun as insp.