Harrenhal Redo Discussion Megathreat

[Ric]

This megathread aims to be a place where we can discuss proposals and ideas for the future Harrenhal redo. Things like style, layout, inspirations, etc.

 

[CashBanks]

Harrenhal's a vibe

 

[Gealrüable]

Indeed a huge threat that should be swiftly dealt with before people get hurt!

 

[CashBanks]

We'll be getting some shots of Harrenhal in House of the Dragon too when it hosts the Great Council of 101 AC, here's a shot from the recent trailer:

Spoiler

 

[Scubooty]

Hey, everyone we've begun to plan out the Castle! Our primary focus is still on terrain and the town for now but we encourage everyone to make tests for things, walls/gate tests would be most appreciated at this time.

 

[Scubooty]

We have compiled a doc of some interesting images and artworks that serve as inspiration for the Harrenhal we are envisioning!

Harrenhal Inspo / Concept Archive

A Note on Gothic: A point of debate already in action and one we foresee continuing throughout the server build is the idea of a gothic Harrenhal. It is a conscious decision we have made that Harrenhal will not be architecturally gothic, that is to say it will not for the most part feature those ...

docs.google.com

 

[Nomorefun_]

example of ruined Malbork castle in 1945

 

[FD001__]

We have compiled a doc of some interesting images and artworks that serve as inspiration for the Harrenhal we are envisioning!

Harrenhal Inspo / Concept Archive

A Note on Gothic: A point of debate already in action and one we foresee continuing throughout the server build is the idea of a gothic Harrenhal. It is a conscious decision we have made that Harrenhal will not be architecturally gothic, that is to say it will not for the most part feature those ...

docs.google.com

Seeing as people want to have hanging flesh/skin blocks for the Dreadfort, would it be worth creating hung men/criminals? as in bodies hanging that are rotten/decomposed? Might be a cool addition - since the Lannisters would be brutal in their occupation.

 

[AerioOndos]

I'm not sure. having something graphically confronting concealed in crypts is one thing. Having easily accessible corpses in the texture pack is completely separate. imo tarred heads and skeletons might be as far as we should go.

 

[Homiesucc]

We have compiled a doc of some interesting images and artworks that serve as inspiration for the Harrenhal we are envisioning!

Harrenhal Inspo / Concept Archive

A Note on Gothic: A point of debate already in action and one we foresee continuing throughout the server build is the idea of a gothic Harrenhal. It is a conscious decision we have made that Harrenhal will not be architecturally gothic, that is to say it will not for the most part feature those ...

docs.google.com

I don't mean to be rude or anything but none of these seem particularly fitting. I don't think that there's any real life inspiration that would fit the huge scale of Harrenhal either. All of these images focus on thin walls but we're creating a wall thicker than most paved roads in kl. Not only that but I feel like simply scaling up these images isn't the right way to go, neither from a fantasy standpoint nor a realistic standpoint. To get to the right scale you'd need something like Leyndell, (Ironically which George also created and also gets attacked by dragons) or the significantly smaller Stormveil Castle. These walls contain detailed arches and tunnels, which can't be demonstrated in real life.

 

[jmcmarq]

This one can be interesting too

 

[RavishMeRed]

I don't mean to be rude or anything but none of these seem particularly fitting. I don't think that there's any real life inspiration that would fit the huge scale of Harrenhal either. All of these images focus on thin walls but we're creating a wall thicker than most paved roads in kl. Not only that but I feel like simply scaling up these images isn't the right way to go, neither from a fantasy standpoint nor a realistic standpoint. To get to the right scale you'd need something like Leyndell, (Ironically which George also created and also gets attacked by dragons) or the significantly smaller Stormveil Castle. These walls contain detailed arches and tunnels, which can't be demonstrated in real life.

Something important to focus on for Harrenhal is not only its scale and size but also its style. I believe the inspiration folder focuses more on style and architectural designs rather than scale. There's absolutely nothing in real life that even reaches the scale and monstrous size of Harrenhal. I personally love the scale of Stormveil and Leyndell. They're perfect examples of stupidly large Souls-game castles. However the style does not work in my opinion, architecture from these games is all relatively gothic and too ornate.

 

[FD001__]

Something important to focus on for Harrenhal is not only its scale and size but also its style. I believe the inspiration folder focuses more on style and architectural designs rather than scale. There's absolutely nothing in real life that even reaches the scale and monstrous size of Harrenhal. I personally love the scale of Stormveil and Leyndell. They're perfect examples of stupidly large Souls-game castles. However the style does not work in my opinion, architecture from these games is all relatively gothic and too ornate.

If we're avoiding Gothic features, then Harrenhal would have to have massive stone vaults to support its structures, and probably apply the same principles like the Hightower - stacking smaller and smaller 'blocks' atop each other in a stepped fashion.

Big barrel vaults too, similar to what you'd see at the Basilica of Maxentius in Rome.



This is from St Peter's at Angouleme in France, which gives you an idea - these are plain in appearance, and very large in scale. Ofc Harrenhal is incredibly large - so we'd be looking at much larger structures.

It could be an idea to have earthworks that were filled in against the walls, to act in tandem with the foundations as the foundations alone (probably stupidly deep) wouldn't be enough. Not sure if it fits with canon, but this would make Harrenhal feel really alien to its landscape as it was inserted in brutally by a foreign conqueror with so much cruelty that even the ground around the cursed castle was broken up and reworked.

 

[Homiesucc]

Something important to focus on for Harrenhal is not only its scale and size but also its style. I believe the inspiration folder focuses more on style and architectural designs rather than scale. There's absolutely nothing in real life that even reaches the scale and monstrous size of Harrenhal. I personally love the scale of Stormveil and Leyndell. They're perfect examples of stupidly large Souls-game castles. However the style does not work in my opinion, architecture from these games is all relatively gothic and too ornate.

I totally agree, the architecture of the lands between is immensely ornate. My point was rather the style and architecture isn't as good if the scale isnt correct.

 

[Scubooty]

Something important to focus on for Harrenhal is not only its scale and size but also its style. I believe the inspiration folder focuses more on style and architectural designs rather than scale. There's absolutely nothing in real life that even reaches the scale and monstrous size of Harrenhal. I personally love the scale of Stormveil and Leyndell. They're perfect examples of stupidly large Souls-game castles. However the style does not work in my opinion, architecture from these games is all relatively gothic and too

What Rav said sums up my response as well. Additionally, some gothic is okay but only in moderation which is something the server employs already with some of the more high fantasy and dramatic structures. The document is simply to inspire, we are still in the testing phase for the castle so nothing is exactly definite yet. Everyone is welcome to experiment with other ideas they find on their own or adapt some of the real-world examples to a larger scale.

 

[Homiesucc]

Making a petition that harrentown should have stone walls rather than wooden walls.
my reasoning being as follows:

1. Roughly the same surface area (~40,000 blocks) as fairmarket (~40,000 blocks) and maidenpool (~50,000 blocks)
2. Located near to Lord Harroway's Town, Fairmarket and Maidenpool, so would probably get enough trade to both fund and necessitate larger walls
3. Was for a short time the fourth largest city in Westeros, housing the first Great Council in Westerosi history.

 

[FD001__]

Making a petition that harrentown should have stone walls rather than wooden walls.
my reasoning being as follows:

1. Roughly the same surface area (~40,000 blocks) as fairmarket (~40,000 blocks) and maidenpool (~50,000 blocks)
2. Located near to Lord Harroway's Town, Fairmarket and Maidenpool, so would probably get enough trade to both fund and necessitate larger walls
3. Was for a short time the fourth largest city in Westeros, housing the first Great Council in Westerosi history.

Lord Harroways Town doesn't have a stone wall afaik? It's also inland, which isn't as good for trade as the other towns you mentioned which sit by rivers (LWT by the Trident, Maidenpool at the Bay of Crabs, Fairmarket by Red Fork).

 

[Homiesucc]

Lord Harroways Town doesn't have a stone wall afaik? It's also inland, which isn't as good for trade as the other towns you mentioned which sit by rivers (LWT by the Trident, Maidenpool at the Bay of Crabs, Fairmarket by Red Fork).

The trade doesnt particularly matter, just that I think its clear they would've had the needs and funds for a stone wall

 

[EStoop]

With the sheer size of Harrenhal, wouldn't the town just seek refuge inside the castle if needed rather than invest in some extra walls they'd have to man themselves (or at least would consider that the most favourable way of things)? Comparing the town with other towns is kind of moot considering this town is located quite literally in the shadow of a castle that is so large it could host the entirety of Westerosi nobility, but at the same time is mostly empty on every other occasion. There is nothing you can compare it to fairly as the conditions this town developed under are not seen anywhere else.

 

[DutchGuard]

3. Was for a short time the fourth largest city in Westeros, housing the first Great Council in Westerosi history.

I mean, this is likely because of all the temporary accommodation that was set up around the town. I wouldn't expect that to still be there.

Here's the way I always imagined it: the castle was so large and required so many servants that a town grew up next to it just to facilitate the running of the castle, like a leech at the side of a hippo. I don't think trade was particularly important in its formation. Considering the high turnaround of houses in control of the castle, the town must have gone through many periods of growth and decline. It must be the worst and poorest it has ever been at this point in the timeline due to the poverty and bad luck of the Whents paired with the war and raiding recently begun in the Riverlands.

Because the town has always been an afterthought I don't think much consideration was ever given to its defence, as Stoop says above, the whole town could probably be let into the castle (that is, after all, one of the principle uses of a castle) and the town was left to burn (as was likely recently the case).

Following that logic, I think the town and walls should be ramshackle and dilapidated due to the DIY nature of construction paired with neglect and recent fighting.
I don't really see the logic in a town wall unless it is the remains of one poorly and hastily built by its residents and may be presently undergoing repairs.

I don't believe stone walls are appropriate as there are several canon references to villages building their own wooden palisade walls in times of war as these can be built quickly and cheaply which fits the Harrentown narrative.