7JG7
Herald
Project Application: House Kidwell of Ivy Hall
- Thread starter 7JG7
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The Spring 2023 edition of The Rookery is now out! Take a look to see the latest builds, guides, progress and development updates on the upcoming 1.18.2 switch. You can read it here:
https://indd.adobe.com/view/f943da18-ed77-4d55-845d-fee9bfa14247
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I'll also copy this pic onto the discord soon.
Also, the blue C is where I recommend making the stands of trees almost entirely Coppiced Hazel or similar looking schems (JHazel and the coppiced/cut versions, the pollarded willow schems). these are perfect for brushwood, wicker baskets and simple, easy to light firewood.
7JG7
Herald
Hi Aeks,So, when looking at the app, the central forest area doesn't make the most sense to me as that is where there'd be some pretty good farmland. This would have been cleared long ago as it is close to the Rowan river. What I'd suggest would be to make it look like there was a forest there, but its been cut back to a few remnants trapped on the hillsides. This would also allow for meadow and little riparian corridors along the streams that'd be perfect for hunting game in. I've indicated my suggestions for the placement of the remnants in red.View attachment 19405
I'll also copy this pic onto the discord soon.
Also, the blue C is where I recommend making the stands of trees almost entirely Coppiced Hazel or similar looking schems (JHazel and the coppiced/cut versions, the pollarded willow schems). these are perfect for brushwood, wicker baskets and simple, easy to light firewood.
Thanks for the feedback regarding the forest - I was trying to make it look more like a remanent forest but your plotting makes much more sense and I will certainly implement it and ensure it can still be used for the hunting of game and collecting of firewood but not a dense forest per say. Thank you for your tree type recommendations - I shall certainly use this too in building the forest and eastern bank so that it makes sense naturally.
I was talking to Jake about an idea for a green-slate producing facility along the stream and the produce gets shipped to Highgarden - with the Aeks' new plotting of the forest I could include this plus some more farmland!
I've tested for more yellowish gradients and more house tests in the transitional style. They can be found by /warp CropGarden and turn left.
7JG7
Herald
7JG7
Herald
Here is an updated doc which consolidates discussions and showcases further tests: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1rg_ciybwPeFJWs7-C6Xjf1Wu7aIVUFWusD4CYFlflfo/edit?usp=sharing
Jakethesnake8_8
Firemage
- Pronouns
- he/him
Hiya 7!
As someone who previously showed interest in Ivy Hall and the surrounding area, I’d recommend still revisiting the house style a little more. Incorporating elements from the inspiration images I sent on discord and the ones on your document would be a good way to start. In doing so you can blend those Reach quirks into a more Westerlands palette. The new house tests are a step in the right direction, but you have the opportunity to set the pace here for a good transition, so don’t be afraid to go big!
On the castle, I think Stokesay is a great castle, but not for the Reach-Westerlands border. I’d recommend something like Chateau Castelnau-Bretenoux, which has those French Reach shapes, with a few Westerlands-esque elements (namely it being a more fortress style castle, and having that big square tower). The argument there of course being that architectural characteristics would be similar to the Westerlands because the environmental features would be similar. An intangible region border wouldn’t have that drastic a difference in castle style.
The gradient is a good step as well, although I think you could find a way to blend it a little more effectively. Back in the day, we went with a majority Westerlands colored plaster covering Reach cobbles, and used the cobble to show weathering. With the lovely new blocks I think you could come up with something that does it more justice. With the green tiles being produced on Ivy Hall lands as well, it might make sense to incorporate this as an endemic quirk of the castle and some richer houses.
Planning wise, I have some notes as well. The area is on a large river, which would be a vital trading and resource opportunity. I think it would make much more sense to have settlements based around the river (think small but modest villages like those in the Mander sprawl). Similarly, the slate production complex would require water and clay, being made of clay tiles and whatnot.
Lastly, I’m loving the forest tests and river tests. My only comment there is to make sure with the river that you have the wet sand on the point bar of the river and have the cutbacks be muddier. If you’re confused, I think there’s a ‘Terra School’ thread of mine lurking about that can explain it better.
Best of luck,
Jake
As someone who previously showed interest in Ivy Hall and the surrounding area, I’d recommend still revisiting the house style a little more. Incorporating elements from the inspiration images I sent on discord and the ones on your document would be a good way to start. In doing so you can blend those Reach quirks into a more Westerlands palette. The new house tests are a step in the right direction, but you have the opportunity to set the pace here for a good transition, so don’t be afraid to go big!
On the castle, I think Stokesay is a great castle, but not for the Reach-Westerlands border. I’d recommend something like Chateau Castelnau-Bretenoux, which has those French Reach shapes, with a few Westerlands-esque elements (namely it being a more fortress style castle, and having that big square tower). The argument there of course being that architectural characteristics would be similar to the Westerlands because the environmental features would be similar. An intangible region border wouldn’t have that drastic a difference in castle style.
The gradient is a good step as well, although I think you could find a way to blend it a little more effectively. Back in the day, we went with a majority Westerlands colored plaster covering Reach cobbles, and used the cobble to show weathering. With the lovely new blocks I think you could come up with something that does it more justice. With the green tiles being produced on Ivy Hall lands as well, it might make sense to incorporate this as an endemic quirk of the castle and some richer houses.
Planning wise, I have some notes as well. The area is on a large river, which would be a vital trading and resource opportunity. I think it would make much more sense to have settlements based around the river (think small but modest villages like those in the Mander sprawl). Similarly, the slate production complex would require water and clay, being made of clay tiles and whatnot.
Lastly, I’m loving the forest tests and river tests. My only comment there is to make sure with the river that you have the wet sand on the point bar of the river and have the cutbacks be muddier. If you’re confused, I think there’s a ‘Terra School’ thread of mine lurking about that can explain it better.
Best of luck,
Jake
7JG7
Herald
Hey Jake,
I understand what you mean concerning the house style and I appreciate the inspiration pics you sent me on discord. I will look at incorporating some further house tests in line with progression of this application and will ensure that a solidified style is established by the time I have finished smoothing and terraforming the land and opening plots to build.
I agree that Chateau Castelnau-Bretenoux could be a good choice for inspiration - I do like the look of two of the three facades of the castle. If I do go this route I would need some confirmation from the mods that they would like this for the castle. Furthermore, I am happy to incorporate a protected hamlet, as per Aeks' comments on discord but again will need some confirmation. However, this can be discussed more in detail after the terraforming when getting ready to build the castle. In the meantime I can explore potential layouts and potential tests some facades if approved as an appropriate inspiration.
Thank you for your comments on the gradient. Of course it would be easier to showcase it on completed weathered facade tests. Yes, it's my intention for the castle to have a green slated roof
Most of the settlements are already plotted along the river/close to the river but I am happy to reassure you that there will be rural spawn running up from the village to the castle along the river.
Thank you! Noted about the point-bars and cutbacks and I will ensure to seek out your thread and refine the stream during terraforming!
Many thanks,
7
7JG7
Herald
7JG7
Herald
There is a new castle layout on my plot now. I'm happy to talk to you in game about which parts of the Chateau Castelnau-Bretenoux inspire the different parts of the model if you want
I have also included a protected hamlet as per the discord discussion but this could be omitted.
Jakethesnake8_8
Firemage
- Pronouns
- he/him
I’m liking the new additions! It’ll definitely help make that a smooth style transition. My only feedback would be the gradient. Maybe remove the light reach fieldstone. The cobbles are high contrast blocks, but the light fieldstones are relatively lower, with the Westerlands fieldstone being higher again. It might help create a smoother texture gradient if you omit the Reach fieldstone.
I’m still waiting on my laptop to be repaired (should be fine by Friday), but after then I’ll be more than glad to discuss in game!There is a new castle layout on my plot now. I'm happy to talk to you in game about which parts of the Chateau Castelnau-Bretenoux inspire the different parts of the model if you want
7JG7
Herald
Hi Jake,
Thanks for the feedback - I can certainly adjust the gradients accordingly. Sounds good, speak soon!
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- they/them
Okay soooo,
I've had a look at the new map again and it would make so much more sense to put the green tile production facility directly off the Rowan river, so that they can immediately load tiles onto barges and ship them once ready. Since they're a clay tile, not actually a piece of stone, having an even larger water source to draw from would make sense. Could potentially be where the stream meets the Rowan river.
Also, remember its an undammed river that floods. you don't want house foundations less than 2 blocks above the water line. The village might benefit from having a little stone wharf that is also a rampart to protect the bank from erosion.
Remnant forest should mostly be thicker, older trees and often gnarled. Small thinner trees are fine for ones you'd take brushwood from but where its actually remaining old forest you'd want thicker stuff.
That stream could really work if it was inset a bit more, with muddy slab besides slab high water and mb the legacy grass block (exposed dirt sides) next to the muddy sand too so it looks a bit more eroded. Would be good to play with it a little bit.
Tests are going in the right direction, definitely a fan of the Conques and other insp from that area with light stone and lots of infilled timber framing.
About the castle, imo you've got a few choices to fit it better to the hill. You could put a bit more of a height difference between different wards of the castle. the Hall ward being 2 blocks higher or lower than the gatehouse ward, for instance. maybe even more to exagerate the effect.
The reverse is to make the hill a lot more like the one that Chateau de Chinon sits on. A flattened limestone bluff that was carved on one side by the river. then you could have the hall and gatehouse wards combined and get more of that open yard effect that there is at the real Stokesay castle. That would also give you an amazing view inside the yard of the side of the Ivy Hall itself
I've had a look at the new map again and it would make so much more sense to put the green tile production facility directly off the Rowan river, so that they can immediately load tiles onto barges and ship them once ready. Since they're a clay tile, not actually a piece of stone, having an even larger water source to draw from would make sense. Could potentially be where the stream meets the Rowan river.
Also, remember its an undammed river that floods. you don't want house foundations less than 2 blocks above the water line. The village might benefit from having a little stone wharf that is also a rampart to protect the bank from erosion.
Remnant forest should mostly be thicker, older trees and often gnarled. Small thinner trees are fine for ones you'd take brushwood from but where its actually remaining old forest you'd want thicker stuff.
That stream could really work if it was inset a bit more, with muddy slab besides slab high water and mb the legacy grass block (exposed dirt sides) next to the muddy sand too so it looks a bit more eroded. Would be good to play with it a little bit.
Tests are going in the right direction, definitely a fan of the Conques and other insp from that area with light stone and lots of infilled timber framing.
About the castle, imo you've got a few choices to fit it better to the hill. You could put a bit more of a height difference between different wards of the castle. the Hall ward being 2 blocks higher or lower than the gatehouse ward, for instance. maybe even more to exagerate the effect.
The reverse is to make the hill a lot more like the one that Chateau de Chinon sits on. A flattened limestone bluff that was carved on one side by the river. then you could have the hall and gatehouse wards combined and get more of that open yard effect that there is at the real Stokesay castle. That would also give you an amazing view inside the yard of the side of the Ivy Hall itself
7JG7
Herald
Okay soooo,
I've had a look at the new map again and it would make so much more sense to put the green tile production facility directly off the Rowan river, so that they can immediately load tiles onto barges and ship them once ready. Since they're a clay tile, not actually a piece of stone, having an even larger water source to draw from would make sense. Could potentially be where the stream meets the Rowan river.
Also, remember its an undammed river that floods. you don't want house foundations less than 2 blocks above the water line. The village might benefit from having a little stone wharf that is also a rampart to protect the bank from erosion.
Remnant forest should mostly be thicker, older trees and often gnarled. Small thinner trees are fine for ones you'd take brushwood from but where its actually remaining old forest you'd want thicker stuff.
That stream could really work if it was inset a bit more, with muddy slab besides slab high water and mb the legacy grass block (exposed dirt sides) next to the muddy sand too so it looks a bit more eroded. Would be good to play with it a little bit.
Tests are going in the right direction, definitely a fan of the Conques and other insp from that area with light stone and lots of infilled timber framing.
About the castle, imo you've got a few choices to fit it better to the hill. You could put a bit more of a height difference between different wards of the castle. the Hall ward being 2 blocks higher or lower than the gatehouse ward, for instance. maybe even more to exagerate the effect.
The reverse is to make the hill a lot more like the one that Chateau de Chinon sits on. A flattened limestone bluff that was carved on one side by the river. then you could have the hall and gatehouse wards combined and get more of that open yard effect that there is at the real Stokesay castle. That would also give you an amazing view inside the yard of the side of the Ivy Hall itself
Hi Aeks,
Thank you for the additional comprehensive feedback. Yes I am happy to move the tile-producing facility where the Kidwell Stream will meet the Rowan River.
As the project I am applying for is on the Rowan River, I did what any good builder would do and have studied the current river and surrounding lands - for example with developments alongside the Red Lake Lands and Marg's work with HolyHall. I understand the river is prone to flooding and the village will be protected by sufficient height and a wharf as per my original plans for the village on my plot - which seems to gone overlooked.
I'm more than happy knowing that the older, more in-land parts, of the dwindling forest will need thicker older looking trees and that is why I plan on executing schemes for trees used in Varner and Ambrose in those areas.
I would welcome you to look at the discussion Jake and I had regarding the castle in the above forum and to explore the new castle model I produced on my plot as mentioned on this forum and provided on discord. I believe this version address some of your feedback already.
Whilst I am appreciative of the feedback, I am aware that it is only one mod providing it. Therefore, if another potential approving mod has any comments or recommendations they would like to put to me I would greatly invite them to do so. That said, I must express that the ongoing addition of feedback, particularly when it feels unending, gives the impression that there’s little intent to see this project move forward. If there are further points, I would greatly appreciate if they could be compiled into a single, consolidated document marked as the final feedback. This would allow me to address everything comprehensively and demonstrate my commitment to the project without feeling as though progress is being blocked.
Thank you for your understanding.
Jakethesnake8_8
Firemage
- Pronouns
- he/him
Hiya Seven,
I’ve still yet to see the castle, I haven’t visited your plot yet. However, I think Aeks’ suggestions are good. I have visited Chateau Chinon and have some pictures if you would like them. Let me know!
On the note about feedback, I understand it can be overwhelming to receive lots of feedback, however, it’s not a barrier to progress, in fact it’s the opposite. Suggestions, critiques and comments that develop ideas, plans and tests— all with the goal of creating an even better outcome— are not hindrances to progress, but a part of the process. That being said, I’m sorry to hear you feel overwhelmed. Like I said in my first post, I had plans to work here and have worked nearby, so I have lots of enthusiasm for this project. Please don’t mistake enthusiasm and eagerness to help for anything malicious or intentional.
Best of luck,
Sincerely,
Jake
I’ve still yet to see the castle, I haven’t visited your plot yet. However, I think Aeks’ suggestions are good. I have visited Chateau Chinon and have some pictures if you would like them. Let me know!
On the note about feedback, I understand it can be overwhelming to receive lots of feedback, however, it’s not a barrier to progress, in fact it’s the opposite. Suggestions, critiques and comments that develop ideas, plans and tests— all with the goal of creating an even better outcome— are not hindrances to progress, but a part of the process. That being said, I’m sorry to hear you feel overwhelmed. Like I said in my first post, I had plans to work here and have worked nearby, so I have lots of enthusiasm for this project. Please don’t mistake enthusiasm and eagerness to help for anything malicious or intentional.
Best of luck,
Sincerely,
Jake
7JG7
Herald
Hi Jake,
Thank you, I would definitely appreciate those pictures via Discord! It’s not that I’m overwhelmed – the project is a very manageable size, and I’m confident in my ability to execute it successfully. I've enjoyed each step of the building and testing process thus far. Feedback is an integral part of the process for all of our projects on this server, and I agree that it’s not a barrier to progress, but rather a refiner.
I truly appreciate your enthusiasm and support. I understand that the region is becoming a key focus for many, especially for those seeking to consolidate the regional transition style. That being said, my concern with the feedback is more about the way in which it’s been delivered. It’s not about receiving feedback itself – I welcome it – but rather the “drip-fed” nature of it, which often overlooks recent changes or tweaks I’ve made in-game or has the potential to overrule previously supplied feedback. I understand not everyone has the opportunity to visit the plot in-game, but if people are going to engage with the application, it would be helpful for them to make the effort to stay up-to-date - reach out to me if they think there are any gaps worth discussing.
The goal is to consolidate everyone’s understanding of the region, and I think the feedback should reflect that spirit of progress. At times, it has felt like I’m taking two steps forward and one step back, and I would love to change that culture. It’s all about keeping things moving forward with everyone on the same page.
Thanks again for your understanding and support!
Hey 7,
Definitely understand the point about “drip-fed” feedback. Although it’s common for feedback to evolve as tests are updated or people come up with new ideas, I think in this case some updates may have been lost in conversation between the forums and Discord. It’s something that we’ll work on improving.
Could you update the app document with the current state of your plans and tests, if it’s not already? I can take a look at your app with a fresh pair of eyes.
Definitely understand the point about “drip-fed” feedback. Although it’s common for feedback to evolve as tests are updated or people come up with new ideas, I think in this case some updates may have been lost in conversation between the forums and Discord. It’s something that we’ll work on improving.
Could you update the app document with the current state of your plans and tests, if it’s not already? I can take a look at your app with a fresh pair of eyes.
7JG7
Herald
Hey Emot,
Thank you and no problem! Here is a consolidated document of all up-to-date plans and ideas for the project: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1czE_i3pxIYVPs4MdcUY03417v-fQ0eYBfqhaV8dme3g/edit?usp=sharing
Margaery_Tyrell
The Dark Lord Sauron
Dont forget to have literal instances of Ivy growing wild. EStoop loves literal interpretation of sigils as we all know
7JG7
Herald
Absolutely! There will be lots of ivy growing up from some of the foundations of the castle too!
Hey 7,
I looked over the updated app and only really have a bit of minor terra feedback - in the stream test I'd find a way to get a less abrupt transition between the muddy sand and the grass. Otherwise I'm happy to approve provided you take the previous feedback into account to the best of your ability.
I looked over the updated app and only really have a bit of minor terra feedback - in the stream test I'd find a way to get a less abrupt transition between the muddy sand and the grass. Otherwise I'm happy to approve provided you take the previous feedback into account to the best of your ability.