Antony
Printmaker
Right, let's start with a small introduction on the nature of this thread.
This thread, focuses on what is simply a theory, a conclusion drawn from the study of relevant canon and maps.
It serves no other purpose, other than just a bit of interesting headcanon for our current and future Riverlands builds, since the majority of the fortifications mentioned, should be non existant in any material shape or form, other than remnants of earthworks or some visible foundations, or a more substantial remnant in the best of cases,
and should in no way interfere with current builds, other than, as I said, bit of interesting headcanon, related to the past of the said location.
Although, despite their reign beeing painted in a brighter colour, the rise to power, of the first Justman King, Benedict I, really shows that things weren't most likely as they seemed.
Benedict, a bastard son of Blackwood and Bracken parents, becomes a knight, and proceedes, to unite the riverlands, in a long and bloody campain that lasted more than 30 years.
Beeing a bastard, its doubtful, that the proud and ancient Petty-Kings and warlords of the Riverlands, who have been warring among each other for hundreds of years would flock under his banner. Most def not, and even, despite after beeing conquered, they would most definitely, show signs of resistance, against their new, bastard(litteraly) overlord, esspecialy the Andal overlords, beeing themselves faithful to the Seven.
So, with Benedict himself, beeing crowned King only after, the defeat of the various Petty-Kings that opossed him (except the Mootons of Maidenpool and the Riverlords closer to the Neck, which he conquered later) and with his canon described, stern and just character, it would only make sense, he'd proceed to consolidate his power, and to avoid possible rebellions, (which, would have, most definitely, happened) with the construction of a series of Royal Castles, which would most likely just play the role of guarrison forts and temporary lodging for the King, if he were to be in the area, rather than a full fledged royal palace, to keep the "disagreeable" Riverlords in check.
(In similar fashion with the castles of William the Conqueror all across England).
Same applies for his very own son, Benedict II, and his conquest of lands reaching to Duskendale, Rosby and the Mouth of the Blackwater. And as it happens with every newly conquered land, Guarrison forts, would work wonders, to keep their newly conqured subjects in line.
House Teague
The rise of House Teague to power bears a lot of similarity with House Justman.
After the fall of House Justman, with the death of King Bernarr II in the hands of Qhored Hoare, the Riverlands descended into complete anarchy for about 100 years, with many Houses competing with one another over lands, wealth and power.
As did Benedict the Bold, so rose, in a time of complete chaos, Torrence Teague, a man of uncertain birth, who conquered the Riverlands, after about 6 long years of war and then was crowned King in Maidenpool. Torrence, most likely a pirate and an outlaw, saw his chance to gain real power in those perilous times. (After all, as a certain wise whoremonger from the Vale once said "Chaos is a ladder") Torrence, raided the Westerlands coast, by most likely taking advantage of maybe a war? And with the wealth he amassed, he hired an army of Sellswords from Essos to conquer the Riverlands.
Neither he, nor his descendants seemed to have enjoyed peaceful reigns, except maybe the later Teague kings. The fact that both Torrence and Theo Teague, kept the sons and daughters of their vassals as hostages, that Theo Teague, called the Saddle-sore, rode across his kingdom, almost all his reign putting down Rebellions, and the semi-canon probability, that they didnt enjoy an uniterrupted rule, really portrays how hated they probably were among their subjects.
So, in their case as well, it would only make sense, that such a system existed, albeit somewhat "amputated" due to the 100 years of war and anarchy, the Teagues succeded, with a good number of the various forts and castles beeing destroyed, slighted or taken over by neighboring Houses. And since we know that Theo Teague, spent a good chunk of his reign quelling rebellions, it would only make sense, he'd use them, as temporary residences to hold court from (Since residing in a vassal's Castle, might seem dangerous, for such a hated King), guarrison forts, to passify the corresponding region, or gifts to loyal lords.
By the time, Harwyn, conquers the Riverlands, the castles have now dissapeared or been replaced by newer and possibly smaller Castles, Holdfasts and towers, built on top of the old foundations. That can be explained by a simple quote said about his rule, when he himself rode around quelling rebellions: "His palace was a tent, his throne a saddle.".
Neither of them could boast of Lines ancient and unbroken, descent from heroes or mighty warlords. Nor did any of them, started as Petty-Kings, who would in a span of many generations, gain more and more power, by defeating or intermarrying with their rivals to finaly form a Kingdom, all the while keeping and developing their personal fief and seat, like all the other Royal Houses across Westeros, (not counting the Iron Islands, bc their ancient system is unique in its function) like House Stark, House Lannister, House Arryn, House Gardener etc.
That by itself is a large factor, to differentiate them from other Royal Houses of the mainland.
Simply because, neither House Justman or Teague, started off with any birthright to lands and titles, beeing essentialy free to make up their own, after conquering everything and were crowned Kings.
Again, all the above, is merely a theory, which in my opinion makes sense. And if its ever to be materialised, (well it has kind off, because the remains mentioned, are all based on stuff that already exist, but thats again to show, the minimal effect it should have on projects, by just becoming a small bit of possible headcanon, rather than affecting them materialy), it should be in the most minimal possible way, in terms of the Castle locations that are in utouched project lands, to simply show, how the ancient legacies of the said Houses, have dissapeared over the Centuries.
Resulting in the current situation of no mention whatsoever of a Teague or Justman seat.
This thread, focuses on what is simply a theory, a conclusion drawn from the study of relevant canon and maps.
It serves no other purpose, other than just a bit of interesting headcanon for our current and future Riverlands builds, since the majority of the fortifications mentioned, should be non existant in any material shape or form, other than remnants of earthworks or some visible foundations, or a more substantial remnant in the best of cases,
and should in no way interfere with current builds, other than, as I said, bit of interesting headcanon, related to the past of the said location.
Reasoning
Main reason, behind the multiple seat theory, is the very nature, of the rise to power of the said Houses, House Justman and House Teague, as well as their history and style of rule.House Justman
Not much is known about House Justman despite the huge impact they had in actuallity, on the history and evolution of the Riverlands, to the kingdom we know today, beeing the first House, faithful to the Seven, to actually unite the Riverlands under one Crown.Although, despite their reign beeing painted in a brighter colour, the rise to power, of the first Justman King, Benedict I, really shows that things weren't most likely as they seemed.
Benedict, a bastard son of Blackwood and Bracken parents, becomes a knight, and proceedes, to unite the riverlands, in a long and bloody campain that lasted more than 30 years.
Beeing a bastard, its doubtful, that the proud and ancient Petty-Kings and warlords of the Riverlands, who have been warring among each other for hundreds of years would flock under his banner. Most def not, and even, despite after beeing conquered, they would most definitely, show signs of resistance, against their new, bastard(litteraly) overlord, esspecialy the Andal overlords, beeing themselves faithful to the Seven.
So, with Benedict himself, beeing crowned King only after, the defeat of the various Petty-Kings that opossed him (except the Mootons of Maidenpool and the Riverlords closer to the Neck, which he conquered later) and with his canon described, stern and just character, it would only make sense, he'd proceed to consolidate his power, and to avoid possible rebellions, (which, would have, most definitely, happened) with the construction of a series of Royal Castles, which would most likely just play the role of guarrison forts and temporary lodging for the King, if he were to be in the area, rather than a full fledged royal palace, to keep the "disagreeable" Riverlords in check.
(In similar fashion with the castles of William the Conqueror all across England).
Same applies for his very own son, Benedict II, and his conquest of lands reaching to Duskendale, Rosby and the Mouth of the Blackwater. And as it happens with every newly conquered land, Guarrison forts, would work wonders, to keep their newly conqured subjects in line.
House Teague
The rise of House Teague to power bears a lot of similarity with House Justman.
After the fall of House Justman, with the death of King Bernarr II in the hands of Qhored Hoare, the Riverlands descended into complete anarchy for about 100 years, with many Houses competing with one another over lands, wealth and power.
As did Benedict the Bold, so rose, in a time of complete chaos, Torrence Teague, a man of uncertain birth, who conquered the Riverlands, after about 6 long years of war and then was crowned King in Maidenpool. Torrence, most likely a pirate and an outlaw, saw his chance to gain real power in those perilous times. (After all, as a certain wise whoremonger from the Vale once said "Chaos is a ladder") Torrence, raided the Westerlands coast, by most likely taking advantage of maybe a war? And with the wealth he amassed, he hired an army of Sellswords from Essos to conquer the Riverlands.
Neither he, nor his descendants seemed to have enjoyed peaceful reigns, except maybe the later Teague kings. The fact that both Torrence and Theo Teague, kept the sons and daughters of their vassals as hostages, that Theo Teague, called the Saddle-sore, rode across his kingdom, almost all his reign putting down Rebellions, and the semi-canon probability, that they didnt enjoy an uniterrupted rule, really portrays how hated they probably were among their subjects.
So, in their case as well, it would only make sense, that such a system existed, albeit somewhat "amputated" due to the 100 years of war and anarchy, the Teagues succeded, with a good number of the various forts and castles beeing destroyed, slighted or taken over by neighboring Houses. And since we know that Theo Teague, spent a good chunk of his reign quelling rebellions, it would only make sense, he'd use them, as temporary residences to hold court from (Since residing in a vassal's Castle, might seem dangerous, for such a hated King), guarrison forts, to passify the corresponding region, or gifts to loyal lords.
Stormking-Hoare Era
After, the fall of House Teague, near the Teats, it would only make sense (just from the easyness, of how Harwyn "Hardhand" Hoare conquered the Riverlands), that the remaining Royal Castles, were subsequently raised in the period of 300 years rule of the Riverlands by the Stormlands, with the Durrandons seaking to destroy any remnants of Teague Rule over the Riverlands, which effort could also would have been assisted by their new vassal Riverlords who opposed the Teague Kings.By the time, Harwyn, conquers the Riverlands, the castles have now dissapeared or been replaced by newer and possibly smaller Castles, Holdfasts and towers, built on top of the old foundations. That can be explained by a simple quote said about his rule, when he himself rode around quelling rebellions: "His palace was a tent, his throne a saddle.".
List of possible locations of Castles/Palaces.
- Fairmarket Castle (The castle has long since been demolished, and has no visible remains. A towerhouse has been built on its former position.
- Stoney Sept Castle (It stood on the spot, of the ancient Sept, and the two faith militant Holdfasts. Demolished by a Justman King, to build them. No visible remains)
- Saltpans Castle (Built where the seat of House Cox, now stands. The castle was gifted to the Coxs, they demolished it, to build their current seat)
- Maidenpool Palace (Built, inside Maidenpool Castle's outer bailey. Used by Torrence Teague as his seat, after his crowning in Maidenpool. Has since been renovated and recieved additions by the Mootons, no visible actual remains)
- Harroway Castle (Built where the current Harroway Tower now stands, as a Holdfast fit for the town's guarrison. Gifted to House Harroway, subsequently demolished, current tower stands in its place)
- Castle on the Riverlands-Crownlands Border. (Built by Benedict II Justman, to control the Crownlands. Demolished, never rebuilt, either minimal remains of foundations and earthworks, or something else is built on top of it)
- Castle on the Green Fork (beeing a probably troublesome region for Benedict's Conquest, due to its bogs and marshes, a castle there would have been a good idea to passify the region. Most likely ruined, maybe that ruined Castle/Hf near Keath(?), or another castle beeing built on top of it)
- Castle near Rook's Rest (Since the Stauntons had very good relations with both Darklyns and Mootons, it would only make sense, that Benedict II Justman, proceeded to conquer them as well, beeing so close. A castle there would serve as both a deterent for possible rebellions by the Darklyns or Stauntons, as well as a protective measure against the wildmen of Cracklaw Point. Definitely demolished, or slighted, minimal visible remains.)
- Several unnamed towers and Holdfasts, across the Justman/Teague Domains. Now either owned by other Houses or demolished.
- Palace/Castle in the disputed Bracken-Blackwood lands (Symbolic reason def, and maybe even the reason of the very dispute. Whatever the case, should be largely demolished, with minimal visible remains. Maybe Muddy Hall, with its name originating to the same reason as Oldstones. Name actually beeing lost to time, and just beeing named by smallfolk for the remains of what looks like a hall, that gathers a lot of mud)
Small Edit
Another small point of reasoning, is the very nature of royalty of the two Houses.Neither of them could boast of Lines ancient and unbroken, descent from heroes or mighty warlords. Nor did any of them, started as Petty-Kings, who would in a span of many generations, gain more and more power, by defeating or intermarrying with their rivals to finaly form a Kingdom, all the while keeping and developing their personal fief and seat, like all the other Royal Houses across Westeros, (not counting the Iron Islands, bc their ancient system is unique in its function) like House Stark, House Lannister, House Arryn, House Gardener etc.
That by itself is a large factor, to differentiate them from other Royal Houses of the mainland.
Simply because, neither House Justman or Teague, started off with any birthright to lands and titles, beeing essentialy free to make up their own, after conquering everything and were crowned Kings.
Again, all the above, is merely a theory, which in my opinion makes sense. And if its ever to be materialised, (well it has kind off, because the remains mentioned, are all based on stuff that already exist, but thats again to show, the minimal effect it should have on projects, by just becoming a small bit of possible headcanon, rather than affecting them materialy), it should be in the most minimal possible way, in terms of the Castle locations that are in utouched project lands, to simply show, how the ancient legacies of the said Houses, have dissapeared over the Centuries.
Resulting in the current situation of no mention whatsoever of a Teague or Justman seat.
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