Approved Update Application- District 8 "Dragon Gate" - By ViserysII, SseriousBusiness & Ric_Games

[ViserysII]

Hello guys!
So, here is our app for district 8!

Dragon Gate app

District Update Application - Dragon Gate Square (District 8) District Description: The entrance for thousands of travellers coming from the countryside, the Dragon Gate Square and its district lie covered by the shadow of the dark and mighty Dragonpit. The district is composed of major stra...

docs.google.com

hope u like it

 

[SseriousBusiness]

*Bump*

 

[thecoddfish]

Hi team,

I've had a look through your application, and I think most of it is really good. I would like to know a little more about what you have planned with regards to materials and styles - I see your tests, but they don't tell me much about the everyday houses. I personally wouldn't mind seeing some monochrome dark sandstone incorporated into the housing mix.

I am not sure about your plans for Reeking Lane though. The term "reeking" refers to a particularly unpleasant smell, and I don't know whether you intend to depict such a place in your district, which is one of the nicer ones in King's Landing. I think perhaps this street would be far better suited to be placed in Flea Bottom instead.

 

[AerioOndos]

On Reeking Lane, definitely would be something to have at or near flea bottom. We already know there are tanneries in KL (the rape of Lady Tanda Stokeworth behind one). Perhaps that is on Reeking Lane?

 

[Ric]

Hi team,

I've had a look through your application, and I think most of it is really good. I would like to know a little more about what you have planned with regards to materials and styles - I see your tests, but they don't tell me much about the everyday houses. I personally wouldn't mind seeing some monochrome dark sandstone incorporated into the housing mix.

I am not sure about your plans for Reeking Lane though. The term "reeking" refers to a particularly unpleasant smell, and I don't know whether you intend to depict such a place in your district, which is one of the nicer ones in King's Landing. I think perhaps this street would be far better suited to be placed in Flea Bottom instead.

Hey Codd!

So, yeah we talked about it among ourselves and we agree with you on the Reeking Lane. Our plans for the street are kept the same (with a lot of industry and workshops), but we no longer plan on it being that one.

About the materials we plan to use we based the palette on some of your choices for River Row. The materials can be seen in the image bellow, with the ones marked with gold being the most common ones

Spoiler: Block Palette

For the style, the image Seri sent in the "bump" (which is the cover of the second book in some versions) and the two following are some insp:

Spoiler: Inspiration

 

[thecoddfish]

I am happy to approve your plans, and am looking forward to seeing how things turn out (pending of course another mod approval). Your inspiration pictures are lovely and I would enjoy seeing how you capture them in game.

 

[thecoddfish]

Please ignore the request for another mod approval. I forgot we were sticking to one approval only with King's Landing districts. Please start whenever you please (though there is no rush!).

 

[DutchGuard]

On Reeking Lane, definitely would be something to have at or near flea bottom. We already know there are tanneries in KL (the rape of Lady Tanda Stokeworth behind one). Perhaps that is on Reeking Lane?

Second this. Tanneries are big time stinkfests, so much so that a number of laws were passed in London restricting their operation in densely populated areas, laws which are the ancestors to modern planning legislation.

 

[SseriousBusiness]

Thank you Codd!! We’ll start planning all the plots and special builds

 

[SseriousBusiness]

Hello everyone!! We hereby declare that /warp kl8 is now open for builders!!! (only the gold blocks) There are some special plots like the inn and the sept for application, so if you are interested you can start testing!

Here's an album to get you inspired:

https://imgur.com/a/Eay4mrB

(Some of these images have post medieval additions, caution is advised)
Have fun, and any questions don't hesitate to ask one of us
-Ric, Seri and Vis

 

[Nuggets - Shygirlstan]

Hey, today I saw the new palace near the Dragonpit.

I was very much shocked at the dimensions of it. It's larger than many medium-sized castles, and it sticks out in the skyline.

I very much believe that stuff should look organic and respect their surroundings, but that palace is 30x18 blocks.

It's larger than the merchant's guild in dragon square.

Please be more mindful - not everything has to be a special and unique building - even manses can have some uniformity and visual balance between them.

Furthermore, the large size gives away visually how actually smaller than canonically KL should be. We are at a 1/4th scale and the Dragon gate district is the most cramped and such a huge structure makes it seem even smaller from a distance.

Why wasn't any forum post made on this thread that you would build such a huge non-canonic building?

 

[ContraBlonde]

You seriously need to stop with your derogatory and mean-spirited comments towards people who have clearly put a lot of effort into their build.

https://imgur.com/a/fR45YiR

What makes your comments calling InvertedWinger’s manse “tacky” and “a cube” different from when Jake called your sept the “Mosque Sept”? Nothing. Except you think it’s okay because you’re the one saying it.

Would you like to be the person who had their hard work and effort berated by a prominent and respected builder publicly while no authority figure did anything to stop them? I do not think so. So do not do that to people who do not deserve it.

If everyone acted the way that you did then the community would be worse off. It is even more ironic considering you have called out other people, saying our constructive criticisms are “snarky” and “not useful”. I don’t see how belittling a person’s hard work publicly benefits anyone, quite to the contrary actually.

You are a talented and well-respected builder, you should do more to be a good example for newer builders and the community as a whole. You have a lot of influence in the community, you should use it for good.

Simply put, you owe InvertedWinger and SseriousBusiness an apology for your poor behavior.

 

[Emoticone11]

Regarding the comments in server chat: Nuggets , these sorts of sassy, unconstructive, and derogatory remarks are not appropriate. You should know better, especially because you yourself were recently upset by similar in-game remarks by another user. If you feel the size of a build is an issue, that's one thing, but calling something a "huge cube" or "tacky" or "misinformed" just demeans the effort that a user put into a build and does very little to suggest an alternative. Like Contra said, people look up to you as a builder, but these sorts of comments contribute to an environment where people are anxious about getting your attention towards their projects, rather than seeing it as a positive opportunity to get constructive feedback.

I expect a sincere apology to InvertedWinger/SseriousBusiness, and I do not wish to see behavior like this from you in the future.

Now, I suggest this ends here. Some feedback on the size of some of the manses, and the eclectic styles, was presented, so subsequent posts (apart from Nugg's apology for his initial tone) should focus on addressing the contents of this feedback.

 

[DutchGuard]

I have some feedback which is more in support of the manse, though I agree as a notable addition to the area it might have been nice to have seen it mentioned on this thread beforehand. If a mod had approved it in-game I have no issue with the process of its inclusion.

As for my opinion on scale, let's do a quick sightlines survey (which is something I actually do irl for work). Copy and pasting the build floating above the city is not appropriate when judging context. It is appropriate to only include vantages from an actually accessible point, and not flying, considering how the server will eventually be presented to the casual viewer/player. You'll have to try and ignore all the floaty stuff, not much I can do about that.

https://imgur.com/a/sZ1KtFN

To me, this looks rather tall close up, but is hardly discernible from the rest of the skyline at a distance. The half-timbered buildings immediately neighbouring it aren't exactly small either.

On the note of it being larger than the merchant's guild; yes. I think this is fairly typical of the period no? The great trade palaces of the merchant cooperatives (e.g. the Hanseatic League, Baltics) and guilds (Goldsmiths Guild, Britain) didn't really amass enough wealth or have need for such structures until the Renaissance, at the earliest.

The only other thing I have to add is that I don't particularly like the flat roof, or really, any flat roofs. They don't survive in a wet climate, especially not ones made of wood.

I do, however, really like the use of the Savoy Palace as inspiration. But look, NO FLAT ROOFS. Shallow, yes, but not flat. Never flat.



Otherwise, great job Inv, it looks lovely

 

[Ric]

Hey all, here’s our answer to the feedback given:

First, our answer to Nuggs feedback:

I was very much shocked at the dimensions of it. It's larger than many medium-sized castles, and it sticks out in the skyline.

I very much believe that stuff should look organic and respect their surroundings, but that palace is 30x18 blocks.

It's larger than the merchant's guild in dragon square.

Concerning its size, as Dutch pointed out, it isn’t something unseen for the period and region we base ourselves off in the server. It’s not uncommon for there to be weirdly big structures, this is a palace from a wealthy essosi merchant family, their economic, political and financial power is reflected on its size and location chosen. Arguably the main inspiration George took for King’s Landing is medieval London, and although it’s center is populated with huge buildings being the most important of the city, one of the key aspects of London is it’s diverse and spread out skyline, so big buildings are not exclusive to central parts of the city. Also, the builds have to be seen in their context; right next to it there is the huge Dragonpit and other tall high-class houses, so the manse doesn’t belittle anything. Thanks Dutch for your sightlines survey showing that.

Spoiler: Examples

Please be more mindful - not everything has to be a special and unique building - even manses can have some uniformity and visual balance between them.

We agree that not everything has to be a special thing, but we also invite you to see the lower parts of the very street that has the palace, as well as the others. Every house has its uniqueness, but you can find a sense of uniformity throughout the district. Much of the district is not made of special builds. And one key-aspect that we strived for in our district is to not make it seem like it was built by a limited number of builders, we wanted a diversity of styles from a variety of builders present, but with a carefully regulated model that offers a cohesive yet unique look to all buildings, we are working on rectifying certain zones and elements that may have passed under the radar that can be improved upon.

Furthermore, the large size gives away visually how actually smaller than canonically KL should be. We are at a 1/4th scale and the Dragon gate district is the most cramped and such a huge structure makes it seem even smaller from a distance.

We don’t really understand how “the district is the most cramped” comment is relevant here, that part of the feedback appears unclear to us. If you could explain it further it would help and we could give a proper answer.


Now on Dutchs feedback:

I have some feedback which is more in support of the manse, though I agree as a notable addition to the area it might have been nice to have seen it mentioned on this thread beforehand. If a mod had approved it in-game I have no issue with the process of its inclusion.

This is something that Nuggs also pointed out. Codd has given his approval, but we recognize that we should have posted it here in the thread. We will be more mindful about that in the future. But just to emphasize we’ve never done a special build without a mod seeing it first.

The only other thing I have to add is that I don't particularly like the flat roof, or really, any flat roofs. They don't survive in a wet climate, especially not ones made of wood.

This is a fair point Dutch, we can fix that and we’ll speak with Inv about this issue.

Hopefully we addressed everything. We thank all the constructive criticism that’s been given and we are open for any further feedback anyone might want to give. We’ll be continuing testing to see if there can be improvements in any way in regards to scale, shape or location, one thing we think might be an issue is how close to the road it is so it makes it feel much more overbearing than it really is, viewing from the road. So it's a WIP.

Thanks,
Ric, Viserys, Sseri

 

[Nuggets - Shygirlstan]

Hey all, here’s our answer to the feedback given:

First, our answer to Nuggs feedback:

Concerning its size, as Dutch pointed out, it isn’t something unseen for the period and region we base ourselves off in the server. It’s not uncommon for there to be weirdly big structures, this is a palace from a wealthy essosi merchant family, their economic, political and financial power is reflected on its size and location chosen. Arguably the main inspiration George took for King’s Landing is medieval London, and although it’s center is populated with huge buildings being the most important of the city, one of the key aspects of London is it’s diverse and spread out skyline, so big buildings are not exclusive to central parts of the city. Also, the builds have to be seen in their context; right next to it there is the huge Dragonpit and other tall high-class houses, so the manse doesn’t belittle anything. Thanks Dutch for your sightlines survey showing that.

Spoiler: Examples

We agree that not everything has to be a special thing, but we also invite you to see the lower parts of the very street that has the palace, as well as the others. Every house has its uniqueness, but you can find a sense of uniformity throughout the district. Much of the district is not made of special builds. And one key-aspect that we strived for in our district is to not make it seem like it was built by a limited number of builders, we wanted a diversity of styles from a variety of builders present, but with a carefully regulated model that offers a cohesive yet unique look to all buildings, we are working on rectifying certain zones and elements that may have passed under the radar that can be improved upon.

We don’t really understand how “the district is the most cramped” comment is relevant here, that part of the feedback appears unclear to us. If you could explain it further it would help and we could give a proper answer.


Now on Dutchs feedback:

This is something that Nuggs also pointed out. Codd has given his approval, but we recognize that we should have posted it here in the thread. We will be more mindful about that in the future. But just to emphasize we’ve never done a special build without a mod seeing it first.

This is a fair point Dutch, we can fix that and we’ll speak with Inv about this issue.

Hopefully we addressed everything. We thank all the constructive criticism that’s been given and we are open for any further feedback anyone might want to give. We’ll be continuing testing to see if there can be improvements in any way in regards to scale, shape or location, one thing we think might be an issue is how close to the road it is so it makes it feel much more overbearing than it really is, viewing from the road. So it's a WIP.

Thanks,
Ric, Viserys, Sseri

Thanks for responding to my feedback Ric, and I am sorry if my initial comments on the server were that were rude.

Specifically, when I degraded it by saying it's just a huge cube and that it looks tacky. It can indeed hurt people who put time and effort to build it and the three people planing the district. I do not know or have spoken to InvertedWinger before this and I think this added to how it could hurt him as it came from someone who he's not acquainted with.

As per Ric's response, other than the dimensions I think the execution and inspiration is fitting for KL and the district.