Project Application: Long Barrow by Auscar

What general approach should I go with (please read my most recent post for more details)

  • a) Keep the current plan as simply an underground structure known as the Long Barrow

    Votes: 2 28.6%
  • b) Have a long barrow that is primarily a tomb, with possibly some evidence of NW usage

    Votes: 5 71.4%

  • Total voters
    7

Auscarbone

Hello! Here is my application for Long Barrow (sometimes referred to as The Long Barrow), an abandoned castle along the Wall, situated between Rimegate to the west and Torches to the east.

RESUME:
This is my first project (been a little lazy considering I’v been on the serve for like nearly two years!).
-Sheepfold (Norrey)
-Tannery (Musgood)
-Baby-mini hamlet (outside of Knott)
-Warehouse complex (Hawthorne)

CANON:
Mance Rayder climbs the Wall near Long Barrow when traveling to Winterfell incognito. From this it may be inferred that the area is a somewhat common crossing. This is reaffirmed by Rattleshirt being seen near Long Barrow just prior to the battle beneath the Wall.

Lord Commander Jeor Mormont plans to re-garrison the castle, which shows that not only is the castle is in an important strategic position (located directly between Castle Black and Eastwatch), but that it is probably not a complete mess of rubble (another reason to assume the barrow was inhabited).

Later, Lord Commander Jon Snow re-garrisons Long Barrow with spearwives under the command of Iron Emmett with Dolorous Edd as his chief steward, again demonstrating the importance of the castle (also presuming the castle is somewhat large). Indeed, Jon Snow states that “we need good men at Long Barrow”

From this canon I have gathered that The Long Barrow is:
-a crossing place
-not completely ruined
-an important strategic position (probably sizeable)

One other thing to note canon-wise is although I know usually long barrows are presumed to be burial chambers, however in this case I have supposed that the Nights Watch would have inhabited the Long Barrow itself. My reason for assuming such is that the NW would have used whatever was available to them, and gone to whatever extent needed being so under-resourced. Additionally, I think that having the majority of the castle being underground as part of a repurposed long barrow, gives the build a nice aesthetic. However, if this not okay, Iron has helped me with some alternate plans.

TESTS:
Here (https://drive.google.com/open?id=1KnL_WWP1lOXKsElQE1sJGAuKd5twZLHu) are a few images that I hope give a sense of the build (including a layout), alternatively find a full-size completed test at my plot (fly straight up from /warp auscar):

GIFT AND NORTH OF THE WALL:
I am unsure whether or not I am expected to do the surrounding areas of Long Barrow, including the Gift and north of the wall. If so (which I think so because this was the case in most recent Wall projects?), I would plan to have a ruined hamlet or two in the Gift, and another few inhabited in the New Gift. Also, this would include a small camp just north of the wall as evidence of crossing (see CANON). If this is the case, I’ll provide a map of the surrounding lands. Just a heads up that if I am to do the Gift than I would need help from an editor to do any terraforming.


Finally, I would like to thank Iron and Cash for helping out. A special shout-out to AerioOndos, who has been a massive help throughout the process, if there is ever anything I can do to repay just call :) Thanks!
 
That it is a crossing place suggests that there are tall trees or hills on the other side of the wall that assist in the climb. Maybe that could be put in. Also a point on the camp, it should be very small as at our time on the server, most settlements near the wall are abandoned because they've either been hit by WWs or have gone to Mance.
 

Auscarbone

Bumpity bump.

Also just a little update. I have some basic ideas for the areas surrounding Long Barrow. Here (https://imgur.com/a/0PWK5b6) are a few images house tests I whipped up. Unfortunately, the whole area kinda needs to be re-terra (including, as Aeksio mentioned, trees/hills north of the wall). Johan suggested that a large chunk of the gift around Long Barrow should be re-done as part of the project (rolling hills and some farmland). Unfortunately, as I am unfamiliar with WE I would need an editor to help with this (sry!). I also believe this would need to be done before plotting any settlements that I’m planning to have (these would include 1 really tiny camp north of the wall, 1 small village including a small keep with a nearby mini-hamlet and some ruins, 2 ruined settlements in the gift.)

Additionally, I have attached a gm3 screenshot here (https://imgur.com/pumKv7d) as requested by Iron. I think he was maybe alluding to the point that the barrow is a little cramped space-wise when viewed in gm3. The image is of by far the ‘most busy’ part. However, I believe that if you are just walking through it the space everything feels ok, and structurally supported. Thanks!
 
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Luk_emAn

Hey Auscarbone,

i like your plans so far. Could you maybe provide a map with your plans for the surrounding lands in the gift and beyond the wall?
 

Auscarbone

Hey Luk,

Here (https://imgur.com/a/LosddcW) is a plan for the gift lands with house tests being in the previous post. As I mentioned earlier however, the whole area needs some new terra in order to fit with canon. The lands are described as being of large rolling plains, and as such the forest would need to be removed, and the land made more 'rolling'. As Aeksio also mentioned, some high hills would also need to be terraformed on the north side of the wall to allow for the canon crossing. :D
 
Works for me, I think we might be able to naturalise the barrow a little more, it looks a little too round/symmetrical/hotdog shaped at the moment, but that shouldn't be too much work.

Approved by me if Luk's happy with the plans for the area.
 
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There are a few things that I feel I must add to this thread about the Long Barrow project you have and they are merely thoughts nothing more.

When walking through your test for the barrow I feel as though the tunnels and layout are a bit disorganized, though the banquet hall is nicely placed. There are tunnels branching off everywhere and some leading to places that may have already been built in other areas of the barrow, which I find confusing. Theres about 6 or 7 fireplaces inside the barrow and yes it is cold in the north, but for some of those, I do not understand their positioning. Also, there is a running spring under the test barrow and just across the snow in one of the abandoned towers is a sept. I don't exactly know for sure, but I don't think there are any septs along the wall canonically.

I know this may be a bit realistic, but a Long Barrow is supposed to be a type of chamber tomb and I do not feel the current test has any chamber tombs.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_barrow

Again these are just things that came to mind as I scurried your test barrow.
 
Hey
I'm not too sure about the functionality of a barrow as wall castle. The grave desecration of what probably was a first man king or noble aside, you get a whole bunch of issues like housing, air circulation, lighting issues, dampness... It wouldn't be a good place to live even for nightwatch standards. Not to mention how much of a pain the process of converting the barrow into a living space would be. Just putting a chimney in might risk partial collapse.

Alternatively, you could build a wall castle with a barrow close to it, that was there before the wall was constructed. As a noticeable feature in the landscape it might lend its name to the castle just like deeplake is called after the deep lake close to it.
 
One possibility is that the underground structure (if you want to keep it as the main bit) isn't a repurposed tomb but was first unofficially and then officially called "Long Barrow" because being assigned there feels like being buried alive (or that you're likely to die on the job). It could always just be a tongue-in-cheek name that became official over years of use.
 

Auscarbone

Thanks everyone so much for all the feedback! Firstly, I completely understand that traditionally long barrows are a chamber tomb, and if the majority believes that this should be my approach then so be it, I am happy to change my plans around. I do think Lemon’s suggestion (that underground structure is just an underground structure called a long barrow) deserves some credit too however, as many wall castles are already built half-underground with winding tunnels and the like.

I also agree however that air circulation, dampness etc. would be an issue that would have to be addressed, but the comments about how the Night’s Watch spared no expense when they built their defences doesn’t make much sense, as least to me. Wouldn’t the NW have used whatever was available to them, and gone to whatever extent needed being so under-resourced? In regard to the sept thingo, I’m pretty sure its canon, Castle Black for one has a sept, but I’m not 100% so please correct me if I am wrong. I have opened up a poll to decide what approach to go with, the options are:

a) Keep the current plan as simply an underground structure known as the long barrow

b) Have a long barrow that is primarily a tomb, but also maybe has a few makeshift buildings inside (Iron has helped me with some plans for this)
 
I think you've made a lot of improvements, it looks great.
I personally would not want to sleep inside of a barrow, I'd have constant nightmares :eek:
What is the thickness of the walls/ceiling? Barrows are great mounds of earth, and it would make sense if what you are seeing above ground level is actually just a mound, and the interior space is entirely underground, below the mound.

This is a real nitpick, but the internal spaces of barrows are usually constructed from solid slabs of stone, such as the below image. Is there any way you can make the internal structure more trabeated, instead of arcuated? I'm aware that there are some limitations with regards to available textures, but it would be interesting to try.

1591277574676.png1591277611998.png
Edit: Found a few more cool images:
1591284642655.png1591285266869.png

You could also try something like this, which would have been possible in the neolithic period if they could work out how to shape and stack the stone on formwork.
Grand Gallery, Great Pyramid of Khufu
1591285095015.png1591285473985.png1591285604052.png
Which leads into another discussion about how the ancient Egyptians could figure out how to build that but not a simple arch, boggles the mind.

This architecture lesson has been brought to you by:
Student Debt
 
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Auscarbone

Thanks so much for the continued help Dutch, I really appreciate it.

Firstly, I completely agree that is would be way more accurate if the barrow was constructed from solid slabs of stone, and I have done a few tests for this idea (most promising ones here ( ), however in my opinion they still don’t look right. In regard to the wall thickness, generally long barrows were built above ground and then covered.

Also just putting out a request for an editor to help with the surrounding lands. Although I do have WE, I’m not really comfortable doing large-scale snow terra. Thanks!