Approved Project Application: House Foxglove by Opaco

Margaery_Tyrell

The Dark Lord Sauron
Good plans so far, my only suggestion is to have a “golden” pallete ready for parts of the lands where the stone available is Dornish terrainset and bear in mind that a lot of The Southern Reach has a similar golden-hue pallete as part of the “Golden Reach”.

Your region contains two kinds of terrainset, and its a good opportunity to show the transition between the “Pink Reach” of Honeyholt and the “Golden Reach” of Oldtown, and you could make some cool transitions and mixture of materials

Be aware of the materials available, and the plans for nearby projects (Especially Oldtown) so that the project doesn’t feel like a disconnected walled garden, rather than a part of a greater whole. The area nearby is much more Mediterranean than some of your tests show, especially with Dorne on the other side of the mountains.

I would also discourage from using Lannisport/Pale yellow timber blocks, those have restricted areas of usage, that we are saving for the Westerlands and Stormlands.

For the red bricks if you plan on keeping Id recommend having a brick kiln near a clay rich river to explain their inclusion. And maybe even consider using a diff color of brick (bricks dont just come in red).

And overall Id tighten the style of the town/village houses to contain a unifying element to ensure it feels like it comes from the same regional materials and culture. For example if a region has a lot of forests, wood can be a major feature, if its by the sea and has a lot of trade then colored woods and plasters can be an inclusion, lots of mountains, then lots of stone walls etc.

For rural houses make sure your thatch on the overhanging rooves are supported in some manner, maybe make a few more tests.
 
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Jakethesnake8_8

Firemage
Pronouns
he/him
Hey Opaco! Just some quick terra feedback from me!

I think seeing some tests for the woodland would go a long way, considering the climate and altitude of the project, the forests should be different to other forests on the server currently. They should have different species, such as Stone Pines, Kermes and Holm Oaks, Myrtle and Brooms. As such, it'd be good to see some solid ideas of what you're going for at the very least in the form of inspiration images and tests especially seeing as this is a terra-heavy project and it is your first one at that. Moreover, the climate and geography could lend itself to some regional industry like viticulture, alpine transhumance etc.

I'd also advise you to clear up your ridge map as well, seeing as you've created quite a few endorheic basins - depressions in topography that have no water outflow. These are often found in deserts, and while this area is drier than most of Westeros, it is not a desert. I would focus on creating lines of foothills that gently roll down into the lowlands and create a nice smooth transition to the mountains. The current footprint of the mountains is not problematic, I believe, and it gives the space to create some really nice terrain. I would also just be mindful of how many streams and rivers you've planned. The area would likely not see enough rainfall to constitute that much water flow, combined with the more arid environment, streams could be more influenced by the season, and not be present year-round.

Best of luck!

- Jake
 

Opaco123

Poet
Good plans so far, my only suggestion is to have a “golden” pallete ready for parts of the lands where the stone available is Dornish terrainset and bear in mind that a lot of The Southern Reach has a similar golden-hue pallete as part of the “Golden Reach”.

Your region contains two kinds of terrainset, and its a good opportunity to show the transition between the “Pink Reach” of Honeyholt and the “Golden Reach” of Oldtown, and you could make some cool transitions and mixture of materials
You're right and I actually meant to include this in the app but forgot. I planned to use a mix with Oldtown stone in the southern valley to show the transition. here's an example of what the gradient could look like for the town.2023-02-16_04.58.59.png
Be aware of the materials available, and the plans for nearby projects (Especially Oldtown) so that the project doesn’t feel like a disconnected walled garden, rather than a part of a greater whole. The area nearby is much more Mediterranean than some of your tests show, especially with Dorne on the other side of the mountains.
I would say this isn't totally accurate. There is zero connection between western Dorne and the Reach east of the mountains. There are no passes to facilitate that kind of connection. IMO there wouldn't be that much influence coming in from Dorne. I do agree there should be transition and there definitely should be influence from Oldtown, but looking at the map, Foxglove is as far away from Oldtown as BWK or Hammerhal. Also keep in mind the projects that are currently around Foxglove. In particular Uplands to the west and Yelshire to the south. Neither of these projects are particularly new, but they aren't slated to be redone anytime soon either, and neither are very Mediterranean. I'm not saying that there shouldn't be Mediterranean influence, just that these projects would contribute more to the "walled garden" if that influence went over the top. That all being said I do agree there should be a little more Mediterranean. Some fully stone houses at least.
I would also discourage from using Lannisport/Pale yellow timber blocks, those have restricted areas of usage, that we are saving for the Westerlands and Stormlands.
I only planned to use these for 2 or 3 larger houses to break up the monotony of a lot of white half timber, but if people strongly object I won't include it.
For the red bricks if you plan on keeping Id recommend having a brick kiln near a clay rich river to explain their inclusion. And maybe even consider using a diff color of brick (bricks dont just come in red).
After thinking about it I don't think the red bricks really belonged, they were more a holdover from Norcross. I'll look at other bricks or just using stone.
And overall Id tighten the style of the town/village houses to contain a unifying element to ensure it feels like it comes from the same regional materials and culture. For example if a region has a lot of forests, wood can be a major feature, if its by the sea and has a lot of trade then colored woods and plasters can be an inclusion, lots of mountains, then lots of stone walls etc.
Again I would say this stems from transitioning the style from what I intended for Norcross, as there was originally supposed to be a lot of timber involved, but in the mountains that would be mostly stone. That'll be something I'll change. Otherwise I would say they have a few unifying features: they all have less steep rooves, they're all fully stone/wood except for the facade/extension. Since I wanted to get all the materials and styles I would use, I think the tests look a little more disconnected than the town would be.
For rural houses make sure your thatch on the overhanging rooves are supported in some manner, maybe make a few more tests.
Are you referring to the rises in the thatch over the door? I definitely missed those. Otherwise I think these types of overhangs don't usually have supports on the server. May be mistaken though.
Hey Opaco! Just some quick terra feedback from me!

I think seeing some tests for the woodland would go a long way, considering the climate and altitude of the project, the forests should be different to other forests on the server currently. They should have different species, such as Stone Pines, Kermes and Holm Oaks, Myrtle and Brooms. As such, it'd be good to see some solid ideas of what you're going for at the very least in the form of inspiration images and tests especially seeing as this is a terra-heavy project and it is your first one at that. Moreover, the climate and geography could lend itself to some regional industry like viticulture, alpine transhumance etc.
I realized from this that i completely forgot to add inspiration images to my application, so I added my inspo pics there. My main inspiration was the Pyrenees and its temperate forests. I do have a half complete test with just the ground and stream done. It is supposed to be a forest test, but I didn't know what tree scripts to use or how to use them, so I never got around to including those.
I'd also advise you to clear up your ridge map as well, seeing as you've created quite a few endorheic basins - depressions in topography that have no water outflow. These are often found in deserts, and while this area is drier than most of Westeros, it is not a desert. I would focus on creating lines of foothills that gently roll down into the lowlands and create a nice smooth transition to the mountains. The current footprint of the mountains is not problematic, I believe, and it gives the space to create some really nice terrain. I would also just be mindful of how many streams and rivers you've planned. The area would likely not see enough rainfall to constitute that much water flow, combined with the more arid environment, streams could be more influenced by the season, and not be present year-round.

Best of luck!

- Jake
I don't really have any knowledge in this sort of stuff so my map probably isn't very great in regards to terra. For the basins I think I was going for parallel glacial valleys, but I don't know if that would even be a thing here. I don't really have foothills included because I read the French side of the Pyrenees doesn't have much foothills, and that's more what I was going. As for rainfall, I want to include the rapids and waterfalls that are common in the Pyrenees. I read the Eastern Pyrenees is quite dry, is there a way it would be able to work?

Thank you both for the feedback. It was really helpful.
 
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AerioOndos

Donkey Lord
Staff member
Pronouns
they/them
Imo, you should be looking more at the central and western Pyrenees, like around Luchon/Haute-Garonne, Haute-Pyrenees and the Aspe valley (This one is the best pick imo) which are considerably greener and properly forested and also has pretty different landforms.
I'm currently using the Eastern Pyrenees and Herault as insp for the area of the Reach closest to the Prince's Pass, which is the driest segment of Red Mountain's northern slopes.

I've made a google earth project which shows the areas I've suggested. Idk how well it will work. https://earth.google.com/earth/d/1v4VUDHs6zmfPNPB5JRPvKGMQaIws8Uod?usp=sharing
 

Opaco123

Poet
Imo, you should be looking more at the central and western Pyrenees, like around Luchon/Haute-Garonne, Haute-Pyrenees and the Aspe valley (This one is the best pick imo) which are considerably greener and properly forested and also has pretty different landforms.
I'm currently using the Eastern Pyrenees and Herault as insp for the area of the Reach closest to the Prince's Pass, which is the driest segment of Red Mountain's northern slopes.

I've made a google earth project which shows the areas I've suggested. Idk how well it will work. https://earth.google.com/earth/d/1v4VUDHs6zmfPNPB5JRPvKGMQaIws8Uod?usp=sharing
I actually am mostly using the central Pyrenees for inspiration. All the inspo pics in my app are in the central Pyrenees. I only mentioned the eastern Pyrenees because it has a dry climate which Jake described the Foxglove area as having. The google earth thing will be really helpful I never even thought of using google earth.
 

AerioOndos

Donkey Lord
Staff member
Pronouns
they/them
I disagree with the interpretation that it's one of the driest parts of Westeros, but agree that the streams wouldn't be v high in this season. This mountain range forms the watershed between arguably the largest green area of Dorne, the Torrentine river valley with 2 former royal houses along it, and the Reach itself. It also can get weather systems coming in from the west, which already puts it above areas like Eastern Starpike and Darkdell, which are enclosed by mountains. We're at the end of summer in the south with autumn still not quite having set in so yes, they'd be low, probably at 1/5th of their capacity or less.
So I'd say having many scree piles, rough herbs and other measures to make it seem drier than the lowlands at OT, but still verdant enough that there can be a cool rain shadow effect between the Reach and the Torrentine.
 

Opaco123

Poet
I disagree with the interpretation that it's one of the driest parts of Westeros, but agree that the streams wouldn't be v high in this season. This mountain range forms the watershed between arguably the largest green area of Dorne, the Torrentine river valley with 2 former royal houses along it, and the Reach itself. It also can get weather systems coming in from the west, which already puts it above areas like Eastern Starpike and Darkdell, which are enclosed by mountains. We're at the end of summer in the south with autumn still not quite having set in so yes, they'd be low, probably at 1/5th of their capacity or less.
So I'd say having many scree piles, rough herbs and other measures to make it seem drier than the lowlands at OT, but still verdant enough that there can be a cool rain shadow effect between the Reach and the Torrentine.
I can definitely do this. I also edited my townhouse tests to include some more stone buildings as well as gradients; all with a more southern french vibe.
 

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DutchGuard

Shadowbinder
Staff member
Pronouns
he/him
Hey Opaco, I think your app looks good and you've responded well to feedback. The only thing I think is missing is a terra test. You don't have a lot of terrforming experience so it would be great if you could show us a test to prove you can handle the mountains, streams, and forests (or a test showing all three at once).
 

Margaery_Tyrell

The Dark Lord Sauron
Your app indicates that the Foxgloves have varying belief in the The Lord of Light, but prior to Renly’s death the entirety of The Reach was pledged to Renly Baratheon, including The Florents who form the largest contingent of Stannis’ support from The Reach.

Where would this belief in the Lord of Light stem from if this is what the app is implying?

There is zero connection between western Dorne and the Reach east of the mountains. There are no passes to facilitate that kind of connection.

I think you’re misunderstanding me, Im not saying to make the architecture more Dornish, im saying to be aware of the materials in the land claim and work to make the project fit the stone types available (ergo in areas where the terrainset is more dornish make the stonework utilize majority yellow stone) rather than making the project tests and forcing the location to fit the tests.

Because at the moment it doesn’t feel like The Reach, it looks more like your own thing you’re trying to force in regardless of surrounding projects
 

Opaco123

Poet
Your app indicates that the Foxgloves have varying belief in the The Lord of Light, but prior to Renly’s death the entirety of The Reach was pledged to Renly Baratheon, including The Florents who form the largest contingent of Stannis’ support from The Reach.

Where would this belief in the Lord of Light stem from if this is what the app is implying?
This was just my observation based on Will's quote that made it seem like he believes in the LoL and what Stannis sees in fire, while Lord Foxglove was referenced in contrast to the Queen's Men and their pushing for a sacrifice. Stannis is already in the north by then so Foxglove would have been with him for the Battle of the Blackwater and against Mance; belief could have developed there. I just thought it was interesting. It's not really relevant to my plans. I don't think any of them imply that LoL worship will be seen in the valley.
I think you’re misunderstanding me, Im not saying to make the architecture more Dornish, im saying to be aware of the materials in the land claim and work to make the project fit the stone types available (ergo in areas where the terrainset is more dornish make the stonework utilize majority yellow stone) rather than making the project tests and forcing the location to fit the tests.
Sorry for the misunderstanding, but I agreed with you that there should be yellow stone in the south for a transition and I made tests including this. I don't understand what exactly you're looking for.
Because at the moment it doesn’t feel like The Reach, it looks more like your own thing you’re trying to force in regardless of surrounding projects
This is a bit hyperbolic. It's just an application, I'm not trying to force anything. Again I don't really understand what you're looking for. Which surrounding projects do you believe I should be referencing? Could you be more specific with regards to what you object to? "It doesn’t feel like The Reach" is not very helpful.
 

EStoop

Knight of Fairmarket
R'hllor and Selyse's Circus
Regarding the religious devotion of the lords and knights in Stannis' camp, I would take all indication to devotion with a grain of salt for several reasons. The remaining lords and knights in the camp are way, waaay in over their heads in a very deep puddle of shit by the time they get to the wall.

It's very clear they are in a rough spot after the defeat on the Blackwater, and Stannis going to the Wall to save it isn't out of the good of his heart, but it's a political move to show the realm that contrary to the Lannisters, King Stannis does defend the realm from threads from outside; Stannis is the only one doing what the king is supposed to do. Several lords and knights are already looking for land and holdings in the North, indicating their prospects are pretty grim. The queen is surrounded by an especially toxic clique of supporters who appear to be very religious, but at the same time are very ambitious as well and sucking up to the queen and her faith is a good way to manouvre up the political ladder in Stannis' court.

Furthermore, the camp becomes increasingly toxicly religious over the course of the story. People are getting executed left and right as a sacrifice to R'hllor, in some cases because they speak against the sacrifices the Lord of Light apparantly demands. Not even the Queen's nephew and the strongest lord backing Stannis' cause is spared death by R'hllor. Being vocal about devotion to the god might be a way to armour yourself against accusations of being disloyal to "the cause".

It's likely to assume the Reachmen still with Stannis are trapped there rather than being there due to their love for the Lord of Light. Most of them joined Stannis when the vanguard of the Reach at Storms End went over to Stannis, who was technically the heir of Renly's fledgling kingdom so the Reach joining Stannis would have been a logical thing to happen. Mace joining with the Lannisters, which he was rebelling against, instead was an absolute wildcard nobody could have seen coming. When the news breaks Mace will not be joining Stannis half the Reach is already with him and cannot realistically back out. The only oppertunity they had to get back into the King's peace relatively unscathed was after the Battle of the Blackwater, an oppertunity they would have missed had they succesfully retreated from the battle. After the battle the lands of anyone still with Stannis are attainted, giving those lords and knights little choice but the go all in on Stannis.
They need to cling to Stannis, the faith and whatever comes with it because it's literally the only lifeline they have left. The remaining Reachmen in the camp have lost everything except their noble blood, and going along with Selyse's circus is a surefire way of keeping that blood at body temperature.

Foxglove architecture
I agree with Marge that the architecture chosen for this project does not seem to match the location the project is located in. Nearby projects (Oldtown, Uplands) rely on a more stone heavy palette with a Mediterranean architecture opposed to the still, even after the style update last sunday, quite timber frame heavy style you seem to be going for. I actually see little difference between the original tests and the updated ones. When Oldtown finally kicks off the style of the area will change drastically, and an outlier in style like this in the vicinity will make this project look outdated regardless of the quality of the build, purely because the style does not match the terrain, climate and culture as it is (being) established in the southern Reach and Honeywine area.

Regarding the stylistic connection with Dorne and your claim there is zero cultural exchange between the areas, I think that statement is wrong. The lack of a pass does not mean there is no way to get through the mountains. Robb for example manages to bypass the pass at the Golden Tooth with an entire army on tow, surely some traders, travellers and farmers can do the same in the Red Mountains. Additionally, the Dornish do not build the way they do out of cultural loyalty to the Rhoynish architectural influences found at, for example, the Tor. The people in the Red Mountains build the way they do because that is the most efficient way to do so, and this would not be much different on the other side of the ridge.

Earlier in the feedback proces you mention the tests were supposed to be for Norcross and the plans have been adapted to be applied at Foxglove, which is what I think Marge means with the statement of forcing the location to fit the tests. Each area of Westeros is unique, and in my humble opinion you shouldn't make tests and then look for a place to apply them since that means you are not using the geography, climate, economy and culture of the place you are applying for.

Gradient
I know this post is getting rather lengthy but I do want to point out one last thing, not neccesarily relative to this particular application since I have been seeing this at a lot more places.

The gradient for the castle seems to have splodges of Oldtown stone, which is something I've seen at several places (Maidenpool for example). What is the idea behind this? How did these splodges come to be? Is this type of gradient being applied because other places do it too or is there an actual phenomenon being portrayed that I am simply missing?

While it's true different hues of stone are used when building with natural stone, seeing them in patches like this is quite rare.
Mismatching stones can occur for a variety of reasons, such as different quarries or even different places within the same quarry, restaurative work with a different stone because the original can no longer be supplied or there being a cheaper alternative, or the state the stone is in (stone weathers over time). None of these reasons would result in patches of differently coloured stonework, unless for some reason these random patches degrade much faster than the rest of the masonry and have been repaired with new stone.

Differently coloured stone would be mixed while building resulting in a relatively monotonously coloured walls overall, or one or several layers would differ in colour altogether. Weathering often occurs at the base of the building, but since the floor is more often than not grass or dirt rather than cobbled or paved this would occur much slower or not at all in these buildings. Weathering also happens on top of buildings and outlying elements exposed to rain and wind, but that is rarely represented on the server.

In short, the patches of different stone is unrealistic and I am curious to know what the idea behind this is.
 

Opaco123

Poet
R'hllor and Selyse's Circus
Regarding the religious devotion of the lords and knights in Stannis' camp, I would take all indication to devotion with a grain of salt for several reasons. The remaining lords and knights in the camp are way, waaay in over their heads in a very deep puddle of shit by the time they get to the wall.

It's very clear they are in a rough spot after the defeat on the Blackwater, and Stannis going to the Wall to save it isn't out of the good of his heart, but it's a political move to show the realm that contrary to the Lannisters, King Stannis does defend the realm from threads from outside; Stannis is the only one doing what the king is supposed to do. Several lords and knights are already looking for land and holdings in the North, indicating their prospects are pretty grim. The queen is surrounded by an especially toxic clique of supporters who appear to be very religious, but at the same time are very ambitious as well and sucking up to the queen and her faith is a good way to manouvre up the political ladder in Stannis' court.

Furthermore, the camp becomes increasingly toxicly religious over the course of the story. People are getting executed left and right as a sacrifice to R'hllor, in some cases because they speak against the sacrifices the Lord of Light apparantly demands. Not even the Queen's nephew and the strongest lord backing Stannis' cause is spared death by R'hllor. Being vocal about devotion to the god might be a way to armour yourself against accusations of being disloyal to "the cause".

It's likely to assume the Reachmen still with Stannis are trapped there rather than being there due to their love for the Lord of Light. Most of them joined Stannis when the vanguard of the Reach at Storms End went over to Stannis, who was technically the heir of Renly's fledgling kingdom so the Reach joining Stannis would have been a logical thing to happen. Mace joining with the Lannisters, which he was rebelling against, instead was an absolute wildcard nobody could have seen coming. When the news breaks Mace will not be joining Stannis half the Reach is already with him and cannot realistically back out. The only oppertunity they had to get back into the King's peace relatively unscathed was after the Battle of the Blackwater, an oppertunity they would have missed had they succesfully retreated from the battle. After the battle the lands of anyone still with Stannis are attainted, giving those lords and knights little choice but the go all in on Stannis.
They need to cling to Stannis, the faith and whatever comes with it because it's literally the only lifeline they have left. The remaining Reachmen in the camp have lost everything except their noble blood, and going along with Selyse's circus is a surefire way of keeping that blood at body temperature.
Sure. Like I said it was just one sentence in my application. I didn't really think it would mean much.
Foxglove architecture
I agree with Marge that the architecture chosen for this project does not seem to match the location the project is located in. Nearby projects (Oldtown, Uplands) rely on a more stone heavy palette with a Mediterranean architecture opposed to the still, even after the style update last sunday, quite timber frame heavy style you seem to be going for. I actually see little difference between the original tests and the updated ones. When Oldtown finally kicks off the style of the area will change drastically, and an outlier in style like this in the vicinity will make this project look outdated regardless of the quality of the build, purely because the style does not match the terrain, climate and culture as it is (being) established in the southern Reach and Honeywine area.

Regarding the stylistic connection with Dorne and your claim there is zero cultural exchange between the areas, I think that statement is wrong. The lack of a pass does not mean there is no way to get through the mountains. Robb for example manages to bypass the pass at the Golden Tooth with an entire army on tow, surely some traders, travellers and farmers can do the same in the Red Mountains. Additionally, the Dornish do not build the way they do out of cultural loyalty to the Rhoynish architectural influences found at, for example, the Tor. The people in the Red Mountains build the way they do because that is the most efficient way to do so, and this would not be much different on the other side of the ridge.

Earlier in the feedback proces you mention the tests were supposed to be for Norcross and the plans have been adapted to be applied at Foxglove, which is what I think Marge means with the statement of forcing the location to fit the tests. Each area of Westeros is unique, and in my humble opinion you shouldn't make tests and then look for a place to apply them since that means you are not using the geography, climate, economy and culture of the place you are applying for.
I'm more than willing to work more on tests and figuring out what style best suites the region. I just think maybe the projects proximity to Oldtown is a little overstated? It's as far away as BWK in terms of distance. Maybe there are more factors regarding this but that's just what I see. In regards to the tests, I was suggested the location by a mod and told that style (regarding Vannes as inspo for the town) would work in the area, which is why I didn't change it much even though I made new tests for the application. Maybe I misunderstood or am just wrong, that's fine, but I didn't just pick an area at random, at least in my mind. After feedback I started looking more at Occitania for inspiration. Some towns I looked at were Mirepoix, Alet-les-Bains, and Conques. I based my new tests off those. If the Vannes inspiration is useless here, then I agree most of my old tests don't work.
Gradient
I know this post is getting rather lengthy but I do want to point out one last thing, not neccesarily relative to this particular application since I have been seeing this at a lot more places.

The gradient for the castle seems to have splodges of Oldtown stone, which is something I've seen at several places (Maidenpool for example). What is the idea behind this? How did these splodges come to be? Is this type of gradient being applied because other places do it too or is there an actual phenomenon being portrayed that I am simply missing?

While it's true different hues of stone are used when building with natural stone, seeing them in patches like this is quite rare.
Mismatching stones can occur for a variety of reasons, such as different quarries or even different places within the same quarry, restaurative work with a different stone because the original can no longer be supplied or there being a cheaper alternative, or the state the stone is in (stone weathers over time). None of these reasons would result in patches of differently coloured stonework, unless for some reason these random patches degrade much faster than the rest of the masonry and have been repaired with new stone.

Differently coloured stone would be mixed while building resulting in a relatively monotonously coloured walls overall, or one or several layers would differ in colour altogether. Weathering often occurs at the base of the building, but since the floor is more often than not grass or dirt rather than cobbled or paved this would occur much slower or not at all in these buildings. Weathering also happens on top of buildings and outlying elements exposed to rain and wind, but that is rarely represented on the server.

In short, the patches of different stone is unrealistic and I am curious to know what the idea behind this is.
They are actually normal stone and cobblestone colored with a 50/50 mushroom island and plains biome. I just took it off of Starpike because I thought it looked good. I didn't realize it was an issue.

Like I said before I'll work to make the tests fit the area more. Maybe I started from the wrong place, but I don't think I've been resistant to feedback or changing my tests, so I don't really think saying things like I'm forcing my own thing are very conducive to the conversation.
 
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AerioOndos

Donkey Lord
Staff member
Pronouns
they/them
Just to be out in the open, I am the mod who thought that Vannes could work as good insp for a mountain town east of OT. The combination of using Conques and other old towns from the south of France with some Vannes ideas would be even better.
Imo some more stoney rural styles would be good but one of the reasons I thought a daub and wood heavy style could work well is that the sprawl of OT probably had to export an enormous amount of wood to feed the demands of the city, and if they're already cutting a lot, it makes sense to use it for their own houses too.
 

Opaco123

Poet
Gradient
I know this post is getting rather lengthy but I do want to point out one last thing, not neccesarily relative to this particular application since I have been seeing this at a lot more places.

The gradient for the castle seems to have splodges of Oldtown stone, which is something I've seen at several places (Maidenpool for example). What is the idea behind this? How did these splodges come to be? Is this type of gradient being applied because other places do it too or is there an actual phenomenon being portrayed that I am simply missing?

While it's true different hues of stone are used when building with natural stone, seeing them in patches like this is quite rare.
Mismatching stones can occur for a variety of reasons, such as different quarries or even different places within the same quarry, restaurative work with a different stone because the original can no longer be supplied or there being a cheaper alternative, or the state the stone is in (stone weathers over time). None of these reasons would result in patches of differently coloured stonework, unless for some reason these random patches degrade much faster than the rest of the masonry and have been repaired with new stone.

Differently coloured stone would be mixed while building resulting in a relatively monotonously coloured walls overall, or one or several layers would differ in colour altogether. Weathering often occurs at the base of the building, but since the floor is more often than not grass or dirt rather than cobbled or paved this would occur much slower or not at all in these buildings. Weathering also happens on top of buildings and outlying elements exposed to rain and wind, but that is rarely represented on the server.

In short, the patches of different stone is unrealistic and I am curious to know what the idea behind this is.
I also looked into this a little bit. It's possible that iron content in the stone would cause it to yellow as its exposed to oxidization. Areas of the wall which the whitewash is worn off and the stone exposed would be more susceptible to this.
 

Margaery_Tyrell

The Dark Lord Sauron
I also looked into this a little bit. It's possible that iron content in the stone would cause it to yellow as its exposed to oxidization. Areas of the wall which the whitewash is worn off and the stone exposed would be more susceptible to this.

I feel this is just an excuse not to change the pallete...

If there's enough iron in the stone to discolor the stone as it corrodes (especially in splotches implying its rich in some areas but not in others), the structure is now structurally fucked the same way reinforced concrete becomes fucked when the iron inside starts to corrode.

And if it were to corrode, it would stain the stone red not yellow, for example in a lot of rural barns are painted red with iron ore pigments for example as a means to preserve the wood.
 

AerioOndos

Donkey Lord
Staff member
Pronouns
they/them
Yellowing through rust staining is going to occur only directly below rusting objects pretty much, and look similar to when we have 'dirty' looking stone below a privy chute. So, like staining underneath an old portcullis. It wouldn't occur randomly in a palette.
If it's an unexpected byproduct of the biomes, we can play with biome painting to remove the yellow colouring around the townhouses. It's not too difficult.
 

Opaco123

Poet
I feel this is just an excuse not to change the pallete...

If there's enough iron in the stone to discolor the stone as it corrodes (especially in splotches implying its rich in some areas but not in others), the structure is now structurally fucked the same way reinforced concrete becomes fucked when the iron inside starts to corrode.

And if it were to corrode, it would stain the stone red not yellow, for example in a lot of rural barns are painted red with iron ore pigments for example as a means to preserve the wood.
I was just providing a potential explanation considering other people used the blocks in their projects as stoop pointed out. I didn't say anything about keeping the palette.
 

Elduwin

Skinchanger
Staff member
Thanks Opaco for trying to implement the feedback given, and I urge everyone not to jump to conclusions about bad intentions from others. Also, we (mods) sometimes have various opinions on projects, so it happens that some suggests something and the others think otherwise, we individually are not all-knowing and builders should not be held responsible for listening to our suggestions.
Best thing is indeed to have open discussions on forums. ;)

Now, I do too have concerns and feedbacks that I want to share with you:
1) The castle: the style looks far too renaissance and Loire-chateau to fit the area and even the time-span of the server. Only castles very close to HG could have features like the ones we see on the towers for example. The roof material (blue slate) is also not really fitting, first because we don't really use it anymore on the server. The pointy roofs and tall towers doesn't really match what would be seen in that southern reach area.
In that, I can understand some feedbacks from people feeling you may have built your tests first and then try to find a place for them, which usually doesn't work best.
2) The town: considering the location, I don't think the area warrants for a walled town, especially one inspired by Carcassonne. The Foxglove lands are kinda far away from the main traffic routes: both the Rose Road, and the roads Dornish invaders would use to attack OT, from Starfall and through Cuy. Dornishmen would follow the coast south of the torrentine, they would probably never get close to the Foxglove lands. I'd reserve walls and strong protections for more major Houses of the area, like Cuy and Threetowers. Besides the lack of reason for the wall, being far away from trade routes, the lands would not be very rich and wealthy, other than what they can produce locally. I think it would be best to focus the lands to support OT, with food, wood and other minerals.
The town house style looks a bit random, in that there are lots of different styles and materials used in your tests so far. I would recommend looking at the more OT sprawl rural tests, even to Hammerhal too. With the mountains closeby, you could make them more modest and stone-based, with quarries and mines in the region.
For the insp itself, Carcassonne would fit for a wealthier and more important House IMO. It's one of the major city of the south of France. You should look for villages instead (the areas recommended by Aeks are perfect indeed). Foxglove, considering the location, could give a very nice southern French / Pyrenean rural vibe. Terra can also do a great job in making it unique and interesting.

Overall, I highly recommend reviewing your plans and start from the land itself, and deduce what it could support or not. Happy to talk with you in game if you want, here or through disc.