Maidenpool Redo Appeal

About fishing hamlets along road to Wishpers they are included in plans of project Dyre Den wich bordering with Maidenpool at west.
Also I have one quotation from Fire and Blood about looks of Mooton's Castle
"
How the prince and his bastard girl spent their last night beneath
Lord Mooton’s roof is not recorded, but as dawn broke they appeared
together in the yard, and Prince Daemon helped Nettles saddle
Sheepstealer one last time. It was her custom to feed him each day
before she flew; dragons bend easier to their rider’s will when full. That
morning she fed him a black ram, the largest in all Maidenpool, slitting
the ram’s throat herself.
"
What implies that yard in Maidenpool castle is big enough to hold 2 dragons
 
The fact that a black ram is enough to make her dragon full (to me) implies that it isn't fully grown, possibly the size of a large elephant. So as long as the yard is large enough to hold about two large elephants, it should probably be fine.
 

WhereRmyDragons

Cersei's Left Bob
Sheepstealer was around 80 years old at the time of the war. But yeah, two dragon riders in the yard doesn't necessarily mean there were 2 big dragons in the yard at the same time. Nettles could've mounted her dragon first and then Daemon's dragon descended.
 
This was an interesting little deep dive into trying to determine the size of Sheepstealer.
Here is what canon tells us:
- Sheepstealer was about 80 years old at the time of the civil war.
- Sheepstealer was a wild dragon.
- Dragons allowed to roam free grow more rapidly than those in captivity, and are able to grow from cat-sized to having twenty foot wingspans within a year and a half (as in Drogon's case).
- Balerion was 200 years old when he could swallow an aurochs (basically, a cow) whole.

So what we want to do ideally is create a growth chart for dragons to figure out what size an 80 year old dragon would have been.

Using the below chart from Brunner et.al., Growth Patterns of birds, dinosaurs and reptiles: Are differences real or apparent? we can plot Sheepstealers age at 0.5 (for arguments sake, let's assume a 200 year old dragon is at 90% of its asymptotic mass) which gives us an expected mass at just over 0.5 of the asymptotic mass.

1596309095605.png

All we need to do now is figure out a standard of mass and plot that against what we already know. To try and determine this the only information we can go off of is the age of 1.5 years and a wingspan of 20 feet.

To do this I went to the dinosaurs. The figures associated with the dinosaur Quetzalcoatlus northropi, a kind of pterosaur the size of a small airplane, might serve as an appropriate parallel to dragons. Witton and Habib in On the Size and Flight Diversity of Giant Pterosaurs, the Use of Birds as Pterosaur Analogues and Comments on Pterosaur Flightlessness estimate that an adult with a wingspan of 10-11m would weigh between 200-250kg.

Without knowing exactly how to scale down, we can say that a dragon with a 20ft wingspan (6m) would weigh between 125-175kg, or somewhere between the size of an adult gorilla or lion. Meaning that if we plot 150kg on the above chart at 1.5 years (0.01) and work our way up to 200 years (1.0) we get an asymptotic mass value of about 15,000kg, or about 2.5 times the size of a Tyrannosaurus Rex. The average cow has a body length of about 2.6m, and 2.5 times the size of a T-Rex jaw is about 3.5m long, more than large enough to swallow a cow, which fits Balerion's canon.

If we then take our 0.5 figure for Sheepstealers age, we can assume he was around 7,500kg at 80 years old, making him the size of a spinosaurus, or about yea big:
1596311780661.png

To summarize:
Veggie, in block terms, assuming 1 block = 1 meter, you'd need a castle yard at least 15x15 blocks for an 80 year old dragon to move around freely in.

I'll admit this all went from quite academic at first to basically pseudo-science but it's the best I could do :D
 
Sorry for the canon dump, but I was curious as to the events surrounding Maidenpool in our timeline (that is, between A Game of Thrones and A Clash of Kings). This is especially difficult because Maidenpool isn't mentioned at all in the first two books.

A Storm of Swords, Jaime.
Maidenpool is ruinous and deserted.
At Maidenpool, Lord Mooton’s red salmon still flew above the castle on its hill, but the town walls were deserted, the gates smashed, half
the homes and shops burned or plundered. They saw nothing living but a few feral dogs that went slinking away at the sound of their
approach. The pool from which the town took its name, where legend said that Florian the Fool had first glimpsed Jonquil bathing with her
sisters, was so choked with rotting corpses that the water had turned into a murky grey-green soup.
When did this happen? That is what I'm curious about. The following quotes leads us to believe it was sometime during the events of the War of the Five Kings.

A Feast for Crows, Brienne
"Lions sacked his town, then wolves, then sellswords, and his lordship just sat safe behind his walls."
“’Twas nearer Maidenpool, m’lady, but the wolves burned us out"
The lions (Lannisters) sacked the town first, but might not have burned it, but the wolves (northmen) definitely did. So,

When did the "lions" sack Maidenpool?

This could be when Tywin sent Gregor Clegane to wreak havoc on the Riverlands in the events of A Game of Thrones. We learn that Sherrer and Wendish Town were sacked by "lions" in Ch. 35 Eddard 9. If we decide this is when the town is sacked the first time, then it certainly happens before the setting of our server.

However,
It makes more sense if Tywin's army sacks the town after the Battle under the walls of Riverrun when Tywin chases down all the lords of the Riverlands as they retreat. I should think it would take more than a small force like Clegane's to sack a walled town like Maidenpool. By chapter 56 of A Game of Thrones, Tywin has reached the crossroads and set up camp. The proximity of Darry to the crossroads would indicate that Tywin has already captured Darry.

Tywin retreats to Harrenhal by chapter 69. It is reasonable to assume that between these two chapters, Tywin had captured Darry and sent forces to Maidenpool as the Lannisters would not have sacked Maidenpool after the order to retreat to Harrenhal was issued.

By chapter 7 of A Clash of Kings, Darry has been recaptured by Darry's men, and we can assume, by extension, that Maidenpool was sacked by the "wolves" around the same time, which follows the trend of the northern forces retaking the Riverlands systematically during the events following the Battle of the Camps.

The Battle of the Camps happens very near to the end of A Game of Thrones, so I am willing to argue that Maidenpool was not sacked by wolves until the events of A Clash of Kings.

Conclusions
It would be difficult to come up with an explanation for how the "lions" might have sacked Maidenpool after the retreat to Harrenhal, especially considering that Robb's forces were retaking the riverlands shortly afterwards.

Canon suggests the Lannisters sacked, but did not burn Maidenpool. This makes sense as Tywin's forces were likely more restrained than Roose Bolton's northmen. Compare Tywin's relatively peaceful takeovers of several Riverlands castles to the Boltons burning of Darry in A Clash of Kings. Tywin's purpose for sacking Maidenpool was likely to take supplies for his army, and away from the Mooton's, neutering them, not to wantonly destroy the town like the "wolves" do.

Veggie do what you like with this information. It is likely, but not certain, that Maidenpool has been sacked at least once at the time setting of our server.
What would choosing as sacked town do for the project? The gates are probably busted, the town ransacked and deserted (come to think of it, all of servers towns are deserted).

As WhereRmyDragons pointed out on Discord, this could be a great opportunity for a unique build on the server, but it entirely depends on what you want to accomplish.
 
Conclusions
It would be difficult to come up with an explanation for how the "lions" might have sacked Maidenpool after the retreat to Harrenhal, especially considering that Robb's forces were retaking the riverlands shortly afterwards.

Canon suggests the Lannisters sacked, but did not burn Maidenpool. This makes sense as Tywin's forces were likely more restrained than Roose Bolton's northmen. Compare Tywin's relatively peaceful takeovers of several Riverlands castles to the Boltons burning of Darry in A Clash of Kings. Tywin's purpose for sacking Maidenpool was likely to take supplies for his army, and away from the Mooton's, neutering them, not to wantonly destroy the town like the "wolves" do.

Veggie do what you like with this information. It is likely, but not certain, that Maidenpool has been sacked at least once at the time setting of our server.
What would choosing as sacked town do for the project? The gates are probably busted, the town ransacked and deserted (come to think of it, all of servers towns are deserted).

As WhereRmyDragons pointed out on Discord, this could be a great opportunity for a unique build on the server, but it entirely depends on what you want to accomplish.
I think you're giving Tywins benelovence too much credit. His way of waging war is absolutely brutal and he certainly is not above a few hundred extra deaths to achieve his goals, which in this case is demoralising the bannerman and smallfolk of the Riverlands. His armies burn numerous holdfasts, castles, villages and towns, such as Raventree Hall, Stonehedge, Darry and Stoney Sept. In A Dance of Dragons we see a glimpse of the extend of the Lannister way of war in the Blackwood Vale, which is completely scorched. We know William Mooton remained in his castle during all three sacks, hiding behind his walls. It's very much within Tywin's way of war to burn out the town in order to force a surrender out of the Mootons.

The Northmen most likely recapture Maidenpool some time after the battle of the Green Fork and Robb's coronation. I say recapture, since the river lords have declared for Robb and are part of his newly formed kingdom. Due to this, I think it's fair to assume the town would not be torched intentionally by the Northmen. It is likely though the town would be looted as the advance of the Northmen would have left their supply lines a bit strained.

Edit | I should also point out Bolton forces burn Darry and put everyone inside to the sword. However, by this time the last lord Darry had been murdered by Clegane.
 
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