Completed HOUSE BALL REDO
- Thread starter jmcmarq
- Start date
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The Spring 2023 edition of The Rookery is now out! Take a look to see the latest builds, guides, progress and development updates on the upcoming 1.18.2 switch. You can read it here:
https://indd.adobe.com/view/f943da18-ed77-4d55-845d-fee9bfa14247
Enah
Skinchanger
Hey jmc, are you submitting an appeal to redo ball, or are you applying? Under the new rules for redoes you must appeal to the mod team to redo which we will decide on or not. Then once we have approved you will submit an application for the project. Here is the link to the rule. Also, the pdf is a bit difficult media for some, i for one cant access it properly would you mind making it a google doc or putting it in the forum built in photo thing? https://westeroscraft.com/threads/official-no-redo-rule.975/
Howy
Royal Messenger
Hey jmc,
I think you may have misunderstood. It is okay for you to apply for a redo, but only after you have successfully appealed for the ability to redo the project.
As such, while Emot and Eld have allegedly said you should redo Ball, you will still need to submit an application of appeal for the redo of Ball as can be found under clause 1 of the No-Redo Rule. The appeal should consist of reasons and evidence for redoing Ball as under one of the subclauses of clause (1). The mod team then collectively decide in favour or against the redo and will permit or deny the appeal accordingly. The stronger your appeal (more evidence, etc) the more likely it will be successful. After you are permitted to redo Ball, you may then apply (as you have done) for the project.
I think you may have misunderstood. It is okay for you to apply for a redo, but only after you have successfully appealed for the ability to redo the project.
As such, while Emot and Eld have allegedly said you should redo Ball, you will still need to submit an application of appeal for the redo of Ball as can be found under clause 1 of the No-Redo Rule. The appeal should consist of reasons and evidence for redoing Ball as under one of the subclauses of clause (1). The mod team then collectively decide in favour or against the redo and will permit or deny the appeal accordingly. The stronger your appeal (more evidence, etc) the more likely it will be successful. After you are permitted to redo Ball, you may then apply (as you have done) for the project.
Howy
Royal Messenger
Its not so much that its not a priority and more that any and all future redos must go through the appeal process to occur (server builds included). I am happy to close this thread but mainly wanted to make sure that the issue wasn't confused as being one of priority but rather of redos in general. 
Just to clarify since my name was mentioned here, I told @jmcmarq that he should update Ball given that a bit of it was wiped during the Mander terraform. I don't think this qualifies as a full redo by the conditions of the rule, but he should still give the houses and castle a facelift to match current standards if he goes ahead with an update.
jmcmarq
Envoy
Thinking more seroiusly, I think Ball need just an update, specially in the following tasks:
-to clean the face of the keep, and maybe to modify it, by replacing-relocationg some wings. maybe a redo of the keep?
-to clean all the buildings by redoing gradients and relocating some, update of facades to remove outdated elements.
-to relocate some minis there, as well as the removal of nosense rivers
-to redo the removed buildings and minis.
forgot the application, I think ball can be fully updated considering more simple tasks.
-to clean the face of the keep, and maybe to modify it, by replacing-relocationg some wings. maybe a redo of the keep?
-to clean all the buildings by redoing gradients and relocating some, update of facades to remove outdated elements.
-to relocate some minis there, as well as the removal of nosense rivers
-to redo the removed buildings and minis.
forgot the application, I think ball can be fully updated considering more simple tasks.
jmcmarq
Envoy
Hello Everyone,
Here, I show to us, an application for the update of ball, considering different lacks I saw.
These buildings look outdated, gradients are really messy in all the town buildings of Ball.
in this case, a new sort of matherial is inserted "freely" without any stylistic coherence (daub and Wattle) in addition, the arch and the low building with clunky overhands look odd
The clunkyness in his maximum essence
The keep planning is random, cramped and odd, in both plan and elevation, its walls are open, being the gatehouse redundant. in addition looks nothing medieval at all. Daub and wattle pattern looks a bit outdated, and the white clay on the buildings has no stylistic sense.
Here, I show to us, an application for the update of ball, considering different lacks I saw.
These buildings look outdated, gradients are really messy in all the town buildings of Ball.
in this case, a new sort of matherial is inserted "freely" without any stylistic coherence (daub and Wattle) in addition, the arch and the low building with clunky overhands look odd
The clunkyness in his maximum essence
The keep planning is random, cramped and odd, in both plan and elevation, its walls are open, being the gatehouse redundant. in addition looks nothing medieval at all. Daub and wattle pattern looks a bit outdated, and the white clay on the buildings has no stylistic sense.
jmcmarq
Envoy
No framing Neither logs or stone blocks!!!!
No clunky details, the massive variety of materials and patterns is crazy.
Others to be considered:
-Odd planning of streams.
-Has no sense the lands placed west of the keep top be a no man´s land. That place needs a hamlet.
-About a 40% of the territory have been nuked.
Thanks for your reading, ill be waiting for your response
Hey @jmcmarq
The updating of Ball has been approved by the staff.
You're good for your app to do it.
Concerning this app (the 1st one you made), we're also good for a major update of the project in general, but not a full redo. This means, for example, to keep both town and castle where they are currently located, but that you can (should) change there style and architecture.
The style you showed in the app for the houses is much better than the current, so I'm all good for it.
I'll just ask you to redo the map, because this wouldn't fit for an update of the project.
The updating of Ball has been approved by the staff.
You're good for your app to do it.
Concerning this app (the 1st one you made), we're also good for a major update of the project in general, but not a full redo. This means, for example, to keep both town and castle where they are currently located, but that you can (should) change there style and architecture.
The style you showed in the app for the houses is much better than the current, so I'm all good for it.
I'll just ask you to redo the map, because this wouldn't fit for an update of the project.
jmcmarq
Envoy
This application considers an integral update of the House Ball territories, as part of the project of the new Mander update.
Placed nearby the mouth of the Mander, House Ball is an ancient minor house of The Reach. Its roots are in one of the three husbands of Florys the Fox, a daughter of Garth Greenhand. However, the most known tales of House Ball are about Quentyn Ball (called the Fireball), who was the master at arms of the Red Keep during the reign of Aegon IV Targaryen. Quentyn was an important part of the Blackfyre Rebellion and killed Lady Penrose´s sons (except the youngest) after crossing the Mander. Quentyn Ball died on the eve of the battle of Redgrass and is buried in the family crypt under the main keep. The knight called Glendon Flowers is claimed to be the son of Quentyn Ball, but this has never been proven.
The lands of House Ball are near the mouth of the Mander on the western shore of the Reach. The terrain is fertile with lush prairies in the west and tiny but deep forests in the east as well as streams flowing from the hills to the Mander, because rains in the area are usually heavy. Agricultural activity such as cattle ranching, fishing, forestry, and winemaking all flourish in this region. Both the variety of these products and the proximity to the Mander have turned Ball into one of the houses of the Reach who have very free and extensive trading networks.
New ball territories have been planed according to this plan.
The terrains of the updated House Ball will have the same locations as the former territories.
Ballingtown, this is the main town of the House Ball, and includes a large market. The town has a small river harbour which has strong trading relationship with Oldtown, the Shield Islands and the Arbor. The most lucrative economical activity of Ballington is local trading, but the town has competent cattle, fishing and agricultural activities as well.
1: Southball, this village is placed south of the Ball territories, on the shores of the Mander. It's main industry is fishing on the river, both with active fisheries and one that is abandoned. This town has an old watch tower guarding the Mander.
2: A hamlet of 5 houses with a large agricultural complex. (granary, shed and an ass worked mill.
3: A hamlet of 6 houses with a small dock for fishing and a river sawmill.
4: The Vineyard, this facility consists of a rural manse, two houses for workers and sheds, and is the property of a retired knight of House Tyrell, who have purchased a wide area of terrain to open a vineyard. This vineyard has great success through trade and the vineyard gives 40% of the earnings to the lord of House Ball, acknowledging their assistance in expanding the region.
5: New Ball Territories, this area of terrain consisting in an atlantic pine woodland mainly has a hamlet aimed in hunting and wood cutting, (4 houses) there is a holfast too consisting in a small stone house garnished by 6 soldiers as well as a sawmill in the northbound river.
TO UPDATE: Balter's Holdfast, a holdfast that looks more like a farm, this facility was funded as a co-op between House Ball and House Wythers, with the purpose of training war horses for chivalrous knights of the various houses in the Reach.
TO UPDATE: Northball-By-Wythers, this hamlet was recently built (250 AL) to be on the border between House Ball and House Wythers to the north. This town has a watch tower to alert House Wythers and a cheap inn and some peasant houses (4 houses)
TO UPDATE: Farming complex, large house walled.
Being already planed the territory, here are the references.
KEEP
Chateau de Trecesson
CASTLE TESTS
TOWN HOUSES TESTS
Middle class
Low class
TOWN PLANNING
The original planning of the town will be maintained, as well as in the built hamlets or built up facilities.
THANKS FOR YOUR ATTENTION!!
Placed nearby the mouth of the Mander, House Ball is an ancient minor house of The Reach. Its roots are in one of the three husbands of Florys the Fox, a daughter of Garth Greenhand. However, the most known tales of House Ball are about Quentyn Ball (called the Fireball), who was the master at arms of the Red Keep during the reign of Aegon IV Targaryen. Quentyn was an important part of the Blackfyre Rebellion and killed Lady Penrose´s sons (except the youngest) after crossing the Mander. Quentyn Ball died on the eve of the battle of Redgrass and is buried in the family crypt under the main keep. The knight called Glendon Flowers is claimed to be the son of Quentyn Ball, but this has never been proven.
The lands of House Ball are near the mouth of the Mander on the western shore of the Reach. The terrain is fertile with lush prairies in the west and tiny but deep forests in the east as well as streams flowing from the hills to the Mander, because rains in the area are usually heavy. Agricultural activity such as cattle ranching, fishing, forestry, and winemaking all flourish in this region. Both the variety of these products and the proximity to the Mander have turned Ball into one of the houses of the Reach who have very free and extensive trading networks.
New ball territories have been planed according to this plan.
The terrains of the updated House Ball will have the same locations as the former territories.
Ballingtown, this is the main town of the House Ball, and includes a large market. The town has a small river harbour which has strong trading relationship with Oldtown, the Shield Islands and the Arbor. The most lucrative economical activity of Ballington is local trading, but the town has competent cattle, fishing and agricultural activities as well.
1: Southball, this village is placed south of the Ball territories, on the shores of the Mander. It's main industry is fishing on the river, both with active fisheries and one that is abandoned. This town has an old watch tower guarding the Mander.
2: A hamlet of 5 houses with a large agricultural complex. (granary, shed and an ass worked mill.
3: A hamlet of 6 houses with a small dock for fishing and a river sawmill.
4: The Vineyard, this facility consists of a rural manse, two houses for workers and sheds, and is the property of a retired knight of House Tyrell, who have purchased a wide area of terrain to open a vineyard. This vineyard has great success through trade and the vineyard gives 40% of the earnings to the lord of House Ball, acknowledging their assistance in expanding the region.
5: New Ball Territories, this area of terrain consisting in an atlantic pine woodland mainly has a hamlet aimed in hunting and wood cutting, (4 houses) there is a holfast too consisting in a small stone house garnished by 6 soldiers as well as a sawmill in the northbound river.
TO UPDATE: Balter's Holdfast, a holdfast that looks more like a farm, this facility was funded as a co-op between House Ball and House Wythers, with the purpose of training war horses for chivalrous knights of the various houses in the Reach.
TO UPDATE: Northball-By-Wythers, this hamlet was recently built (250 AL) to be on the border between House Ball and House Wythers to the north. This town has a watch tower to alert House Wythers and a cheap inn and some peasant houses (4 houses)
TO UPDATE: Farming complex, large house walled.
Being already planed the territory, here are the references.
KEEP
Chateau de Trecesson
CASTLE TESTS
TOWN HOUSES TESTS
Middle class
Low class
TOWN PLANNING
The original planning of the town will be maintained, as well as in the built hamlets or built up facilities.
THANKS FOR YOUR ATTENTION!!
Hey jmc,
I've had the time to look at your tests.
For the houses, as seen in game when you were testing for them, I'm good with it.
For the castle, your new test could use some improvements: make the gate towers taller and the roof thinner; remove the large round tower, which is too much; and here and there i left you melons.
For the plans, overall it's good, i just want you to remove the "village 1", or don't make it bigger than a few houses.
If all this is good with you, then consider Ball-update approved for me!
I've had the time to look at your tests.
For the houses, as seen in game when you were testing for them, I'm good with it.
For the castle, your new test could use some improvements: make the gate towers taller and the roof thinner; remove the large round tower, which is too much; and here and there i left you melons.
For the plans, overall it's good, i just want you to remove the "village 1", or don't make it bigger than a few houses.
If all this is good with you, then consider Ball-update approved for me!
Hgkoolaid
Messenger
Hey jmc, I like your tests and what I'm about to say isn't really directed at you just a question in general to the mods since the official redo policy thread is locked.
What's the line we are drawing for updates/redo's with concerns to updating certain portions of a build but fully redoing other parts?
I realize this update has already been approved by the moderator team, but since that is the case I think the clauses in relation to the update in the official policy need to be changed, or, more ironically, updated.
Definitions in Use
2. An "update", for the purposes and intents of this post, is defined as (1) adding on to an existing build without removing the existing portions (for instance, adding surrounding lands which weren't there before), and/or (2) modifying the exteriors or interiors of an existing build without removing the build and starting from scratch.
Using Ball as an example this fits the definition of adding in lands that have been nuked by the mander update and giving a facelift to the town similar to the foster project at estermont. Where it doesn't fit in my analysis is the redo of the keep, which is where the update/redo question I have comes into play.
That said, I'm really only posting this since Ball is the first project to appeal the new update policy, and I want to make sure everyone is on the same page going forward. I know JMC will do this project justice
What's the line we are drawing for updates/redo's with concerns to updating certain portions of a build but fully redoing other parts?
I realize this update has already been approved by the moderator team, but since that is the case I think the clauses in relation to the update in the official policy need to be changed, or, more ironically, updated.
Definitions in Use
2. An "update", for the purposes and intents of this post, is defined as (1) adding on to an existing build without removing the existing portions (for instance, adding surrounding lands which weren't there before), and/or (2) modifying the exteriors or interiors of an existing build without removing the build and starting from scratch.
Using Ball as an example this fits the definition of adding in lands that have been nuked by the mander update and giving a facelift to the town similar to the foster project at estermont. Where it doesn't fit in my analysis is the redo of the keep, which is where the update/redo question I have comes into play.
That said, I'm really only posting this since Ball is the first project to appeal the new update policy, and I want to make sure everyone is on the same page going forward. I know JMC will do this project justice
jmcmarq
Envoy
for this specific case, due to the odd planning of the former keep, is more reliable to replace it. This means the update tasks to overcome for a house area, will depend on the estate, as well as the looking of their buildings. however, the planning of the town is not going to be altered, as well as other builds in the lands. is desired most of the plans and footprints of the builds to be maintained.